yah I dont know why it happened either, I have read a few forum posts that coincide what I have reported, including a sort of surrealism. I just want to know how long it takes to be over.

..i think rMAOIs (particularly p. harmala) can lead to a lot more complications than some advocates make out..(i'm in the school that prefers tryptamine effects not
to be changed by MAOIs, even though i still like ayahusuca for healing..)
..the MAO system in the body is highly complex, hence a lot of individual variation, and all dependant on what one has consumed in past week or so..
i've known p. harmala high doses (especially without meticulous diet) to linger in effects for several days, and leave one feeling drained..
..eat simple re-building foods, stay away from direct sunlight & loud sound, and try not to take any kind of psychoactive, and a harmala OD crises should pass
within 36-72 hours..if not re-evaluate one's entire intake inventory..
..high harmala doses can lead to temporary non-reversableMAO like effects..

for many who'm p. harmala does not agree with, b. caapi is prefered..it is often said that p. harmala requires a stricter diet & is harsher...

ps. to everyone reminding us all about the reversability of the MAO effects of harmalas, it should be remembered that (especially after just a single administration)
non-reversable MAOs do not permanently deprive the system of MAO A, it just takes longer (say a week or two) to rebuild the enzyme...

Could you provide a source that it can take a week or two to return the bioavailability of MAO A after taking RIMAs?

"ps. to everyone reminding us all about the reversability of the MAO effects of harmalas, it should be remembered that (especially after just a single administration)
non-reversable MAOs do not permanently deprive the system of MAO A, it just takes longer (say a week or two) to rebuild the enzyme...
Back to top PM "

I am not sure how relative that is to harmalas though. Harmalas are harmalas first..RIMA's second IMO..you cant really compare them to any other class of MAOI's..

..actually i said, a week or two with non-reversable MAOs, (RIMAs are still 'MAO' inhibitors in the general meaning BTW)

as for extended duration of p. harmala extracts (2-3 days), as correspondent wrote'
and since the early 90s i've heard several such reports & experienced this myself (when deliberately testing foods in combo with RIMAs)..
..if the system has not returned to balance after about 8 hours, then the effect could be described as non-reversableMAO-like..

not a whole lot of detailed recent medical research (that i know of) has been done with harmala pharamacology (esp. syrian rue), particularly not with regards
to dietry contraindications, and i think a lot of assumptions based on simple synthetic RIMAs have been made..

if anyone knows of a treasure-trove of harmala med research i'd love to know...

..i'm only argumentative for harm-reduction sake..
it should be noted that P. harmala has complex pharmacology & is also an abortificant/uteronic convulsant and also contains alkaloids like vasicine..
see http://ijps.sums.ac.ir/files/PD...les/3rd.pdf890743837.pdf
the complex interactions of these other alkaloids with beta-carbolines and the MAO system in general is still being worked out as far as i can tell...

Umm that's strange. I'd say you're sensitive.

Have you ever tried caapi? I agree that generally if something makes you feel unwell, especially psychologically, you might want to stay away. Unless something in you just nags away for it.

My first aya experience was VERY light, and the second too, but the second scared the crap out of me. I became very concerned that I was in a dream, can't say why for sure. But I can say that after my rough and unprepared salvia breakthrough I was apprehensive about a 'life changing experience'. I was overly sensitive. I've been working slowly with different things since. Including recently rue, daily, though I haven't eaten it yet.

Sucks you were so sensitive to it, but there's more than one way to fly. mdma, mescaline, morning glories, lsd, 2c chems, etc, etc.

Mostly I'd advise grounding and acceptance. Meditation, exercise, breath or QiGong work, that sort of thing. Talk openly and freely when you can. Reflect on your dreams, keep a journal, garden? Hum the bad feelings away man, everythings gonna be alright.

Interesting. How much melatonin did you take? I've been taking about 1mg every night for like 10 years. I've never taken it before taking tryptamines, or rima's though. What is the theory behind combing melatonin with tryptamines? Why does it supposedly cause more intense sessions?

About the Syrian Rue, that doesn't sound like a rue reaction to me. It sounds like anxiety. 2g of Syrian Rue is not a large dose at all. I once took 12g of Rue, and although I became sicker than I have ever been in my life, there was no long term effects. Acute effects wore off after 12 hours. RIMA's themselves should be completely metabolized within a day. I know everyone is different and reacts different, but to have an extreme reaction to 2g of rue that lasts for days? That doesn't seem probable, even if you were on some other medications, which hopefully, you weren't. Don't freak yourself out too much. Feelings of surreality and such are common place here. Also, your heart measurements don't sound particularly troubling. They were above average, but you will not die soon.

..2 grams would seem to be too small amount to lead to the toxicity i describe above (though i ended up concluding that smoking MAOIs was the smoother/safer way to go),

...the only other idea that comes to mind is that there are several grades of p. harmala (ingestable, incense & industrial, the latter used for dye)..i have been told the industrial grade
should not be consumed as it may contain pesticides...

Yea, this is why extracts > seeds and manske is crucial.

If that ps was directed at me, I never meant to imply that MAOIs are entirely irreversible for life...that would be silly.

Thats what I dont understand either, it was a normal dose from what I have read, other than most people boil it, so I can only assume boiling and drinking the tea reduces the dosage substantially, I had a reaction that is comparable to one story I read where 2 guys took 15grams and boiled it in water and drank the tea. To be honest I still dont feel as good as I did, I also wonder if maybe I had some complication with the maoi and an interaction with something. It just doesnt make any sense to me. Ive had panic attacks before too but what I felt was some uncontrolling overpowering CONSUMING fear of dying, heart shattering fear really, I've never felt that before.

it really does just sound like you had a panick attack. Anxiety like that can manifest with mushrooms, DMT, LSD, mescaline or ayuahuasca etc..sometimes anxiety attacks leave people feeling anxious for a while after. This is how people develope PTSD..

Just becasue your heart is beating fast and you think you are dying does not mean anything is even actaully wrong. I have been convinced I was dying or having heart attacks after smoking cannabis many times..it has thrown me into horrible panic states where I would not touch it for long periods of time after..I still cant smoke alot of pot or it will do that to me and leave me feeling iffy about everything and anxious for a while after.

Unless you had caffine, or cannabis, tobacco etc I dont see how there could have been any interactions going on. Food interactions are basically bs IMO..and people talking about the abortion inducing side of rue need to understand that that does NOT imply any form of toxicity, and is only relevant to pregnant women..on top of that 2g of rue is a tiny dose in relation to how much one would take for inducing abortions.

If your doctor told you you are fine, than most likely you just had a panic attack..if you have taken a psychoactive substance than a panic attack can feel worse than it would if you had not taken one..and then you develope the idea that something is erally wrong and your mind obcesses about it reinforcing the panic which strengthens the feedback loop.

..it wasn't personally directed, SnozzleBerry, i just thought the issue was becoming confusing for those not as versed in the subject...

Maybe it will never wear off.

Maybe it altered genes in your DNA.

Maybe this is a metaphor for you waking up to a higher awareness in this world.

Maybe there is no turning back, and that is perfectly OK.

Maybe you are growing.

These things are possible as well. If your experience was really that powerful, your experience of the world may seem different for a while. Allow yourself to be. Most people here feel they've grown in many ways, and that growth has often come from difficult experiences, and surreal and unusual experiences. Physically though, I'd say you have nothing to worry about. Mentally, you probably have nothing to worry about unless you convince yourself that you do.

Just wanted to post that I am still haveing problems with anxiety, extreme fatigue, mental confusion, and probably a few other things that I cant think of right now, Im probably going to go back to the doctor and get my liver checked up, the ER for some reason ran blood but didnt check my liver function, idiots. I have no idea what could be causing this, i also will get sudden extreme bouts of sadness, no to be confused with depression, but sadness. I cant explain it and it all started after the syrian rue. I almost feel as though I have been poisoned or something, i have read up on the dna alterations and though that does happen i think that there may be something else going on. Any other ideas or insight would be welcome.

I'm pretty sure they will find nothing wrong with you. But it's good to go there and see the results as they will make you feel better.

Sometimes there are unpleasant side effects with such drugs, and I think you just have to ride it out, even if it takes longer. It could be a similar thing that happens when one stops using depression drugs, it takes some time to get back to normal. Maybe you should read about that. I've just read somewhere that it takes some time to get the brain chemistry back to normal after depression drugs which use MAOI

ok, update, went to doctor, everything was fine, bilrubin was a little high but that was it, liver is ok. I still have symptoms of dizziness especially at work, fatigue, and blurry vision. Hopefully this all goes away soon.

Try eating some salmon.

ok, whats your idea?