It just crossed my mind that DMT may be more of a dietary / spiritual "supplement", rather than a "drug". We need it in order to exist, and it helps in many ways to brighten and reform our world view, amongst other things of course In many ways it gives us, mentally and spiritually, a boost of energy, or insight, creativity, and more. These things all help us become more than what we already are.

DMT is not a drug, it is a fertiliser. It is fuel for the raging fire between our ears.

It's really all about semantics. DMT is an endogenous neurotransmitter. It is a tryptamine. DMT can be a crystalline solid or hygroscopic oil. DMT is a drug as much as it is a key nutrient in the development of the spirit. See what I mean It's both, AND something completely different!

But what other "drug" works in such a way?! Maybe it is a drug, but if it is, we are also supplementing our bodies production of it. I wonder what this implies from an evolutionary perspective, those who partake and those don't, over millenia.

Bufotenine and 5-MeO-DMT are also endogenous substances. The fact that we consider DMT so special is more related to personal preference, its a subjective (arbitrary) decision.

I have no idea what DMT means in the grand scale and in terms of evolution, but I know vaporizing or ingesting it is an existentially-challenging experience of an unparalleled beauty and complexity, and I feel it is beneficial for me when used respectfully, and important to my own personal path

The very nature of the dmt experience IMO will forever leave it intangible and inexplicable. I like to think of it as an asset, a tool, riddle, a challange, sometimes a medicine, sometimes a space-craft... The term drug refers to a biological/physiological perspective. The term spiritual supplement to a spiritual perspective. They are both aspects of dmt, and yet don't fully encompass what dmt is. Will anything we can conjure up with words ever? I doubt it. So I guess it depends on which aspect we are interested in, when talking about it, because that will determine what we will call it in the given context.

I feel much the same Endless, although I am still getting to grips with using it and learning from it, if that is truly possible. 5-Meo, and Bufo are both on the cards though. I m thinking of making a "supplement box" with dividers in it, a compartment for enhanced caapi vine, one with mullein, peppermint etc, and also leaf enhanced with Bufo, and maybe 5-Meo (this one scares me a little! lol) - this way I could mix and match my endogenous supplements as I please... I feel this would be a good approach, although Bufo and 5-meo need to be explored thoroughly before even contemplating mixing them of course... It will be like a little sushi box of light I feel it will need to be developed over a long period of time though, as my relationship with each molecule becomes more evident.

Getting excited just thinking about that little box! Might have to call the box Pandora lol

I think it is intangible and inexplicable in our current mode of understanding. The human mind can only process and assimilate so much IMO/E. Maybe that understanding comes after we have shuffled off this mortal coil?

I didnt say that in order to put those 3 substances in any higher category objectively just because they are endogenous. There are other endogenous substances that would have some or other psychoactive effect but I dont necessarily look for them

I think the psychedelics in general are a class of substance that interest me, so if I were you I would try to get some mescaline and mushrooms and lsd and harmalas there too

maybe it's not a matter of grasping it all at the same time. like I said there are different aspects of it and each can be understood separately, but put together it has too many dimensions for us to comprehend at once. We can only see parts of it at the same time, and thus we have to decide which of these parts we need to examine. It is the same with every thing that exists in this universe. its true nature can not be described by one characterstic - wave or particle, location or velocity... once one is observed the other becomes blurry, but it is still part of its nature. We have no concepts for this in our mind. We always try to find an "either-or" reality where only one or the other can be true. Where a thing has to be definable by a discrete concept. But the world is not made up of things or discrete objects. So how can we ever hope to describe it with these terms.

only aspects of reality can be described in discrete terms. But that's enough, no? We can get quite far with that. We just have to remember it when we go into it - that's not the whole we are looking at. Only parts. And in time we'll look at other parts. Other angles, aspects, other interpretations, etc.

Anyway that's my take on it.

Plus I don't believe that there is any sense in hoping for understanding after death. if it comes it comes. but that's not going to help us now.

Endless - I was merely stating an intention of mine for future growth / recreation, and experimentation... No doubt there are other endogenous substances that would be worthy supplements, but, like you, psychedelics have a dear place in my heart, and they fascinate me. None more so than DMT, although I am intrigued by Bufo... I think my next batch of bark may have some seeds being sent along with it... Part of the fun of these substances is that you can make a hobby out of it, albeit a fairly illegal hobby! lol.

Funnily enough, I have a San Pedro on the way which I intend to cultivate and nurture until the time is right, it has also been around 7 years since I last touched 'shrooms, but I think with my refreshed perspective I will enjoy them all the more this time around. I think where possible, growing your own is the 'noble' path to these substances, oh for a massive tropical greenhouse with Mimosa, Acacia, B. Caapi, some wonderful Sativas and Indicas maybe... *dreams* I have been experimenting with various synthetic phens, but to be honest I would much rather respect my body and go the natural route from now on... I feel like I have grown out of chemicals, and I think this sort of thing would be one of the most rewarding forms of horticulture.

Thing is, if we are supplementing one endogenous substance, and not the other, may that not bring around imbalance?

Enoon - I was merely speculating on the understanding upon death part, although it does make a certain sense to me that as our senses dissipate, the filters required for survival are cast aside and our concioussness may expand back to that of the collective. Total speculation though, with the limited knowledge I have of concious. Maybe that is what true enlightenment is? Maybe I'm talking nonsense, who knows. Everything from the individual human mind is totally subjective.

I do agree that our minds are only capable of understanding one element, or perspective as something as massive and all encompassing as the esoteric. Indeed, perception and selective cognisence for us go hand in hand, as they are our means of survival. Once the criteria of physical existence are removed, the name of the game may change in ways we cannot yet imagine.

I love this place, it's a rare thing for me to get to air my thoughts on these matters like this. Many of my friends are a little... 'backward' in that respect.

Well said Enoon.


IMO, it doesn't matter at all if dmt is endogenous, or if that has any relation to its inexplicable power, or if it is just a coincidence. Maybe it does have a purpose, and is synthesized in our bodies for a reason. Or maybe there are just some enzymes/antibodies that catalyze certain reactions in living organisms and happen to create dimethyltryptamine as a byproduct from tryptophan. The biosynthesis of DMT is extremely easy. Methylation is simple and very common in organic chemistry.

I don't care if i'm ingesting a drug, or a supplement, or whatever you want to call it. Those are just two words without much difference, other then the word "supplement" for some people is more socially accepted.

DMT is a molecule, a simple tryptamine, and when these molecules reach the serotonin synapses in the human brain at a high enough dose, it causes extremely interesting, profound, and questionable effects.

I am always stricken when I consider the priority DMT receives in being transported across the blood-brain barrier.

The depth of its importance may only be surpassed by the depth of its profound and infinite unknowability.

I do personally consider it a supplement. Especially the harmalas. I take melatonin... so where does one draw the line?

(Or maybe I've taken too many drugs and just scribble outside the box. )

Goin in the Memorable Quotes Thread...

I'm flattered

Haha i think you wanted to sound badass on purpose. JK

I just like stickin' words together