Hello, having tried strong doses of shrooms in the past on my travels, and not having yet tried Ayahuasca, i was wondering how you guys would compare a strong shrooms trip -such as 5 grammes of psilocybe cyanascens or wavy caps verses ayahuasca , or pharmahuasca. Is Ayahuasca totally mindblowing in terms of visuals, where'as shrooms tend to feel a little "anxious or jittery at times", although still being visual??

-I have the Ayahuasca ingredients, but want to know what i'm letting myself in for....

FME, it can both be incredibly visual and mid blowing or just psychological type of analytical effects and somatic response.

Though it's not the same land entirely, there is a tryptamine continent you'll find (which shares it a bit with enoug LSD also).
As long as you start low 40-50 grams caapi or even less caapi only brew to start working with it, it surely will be not feel unsafer than 5 grams of strong mushrooms.
It's on the same range of difficult/easy to me.
Though each one is different, and I stress that I increase really slowly my dosage with aya/pharma, it' getting more an d more interesting, richer, positive healing...

What's your plan on dosage and admix/ no admix to begin with ?

Hi Rom, i was thinking of 50 grammes caapi, and 50 grammes viridis. Have you tried this amount??

I haven't tried traditional ayahuasca but I do have a lot of experience with pharma and I can tell you that for me a high dose mushroom trip and a high dose pharma trip are pretty much the same thing.

I would add that in my experience mushrooms seem more predictable and easier to dose since your only worrying about one one thing whereas pharma your worrying about two, I think its much easier for pharma to hit you harder than expected, at least it has been for me.

I never had viridis but 50g is a good place to start with caapi. You might feel like you need more caapi, but you can always take more next time.

I like more harmalas as oposed to more DMT personally. If you take just enough caapi or rue to activate the DMT, then you might get some sort of wild DMT trip similar to smoking that lacks the richness of ayahuasca the way it is brewed in the amazon...traditional ayahuasca is based around the caapi, sometimes only the caapi without any DMT.

A brew that has a larger dose of caapi(whcih is visionary on its own) with less DMT, can really be different from mushrooms I find. Once you hit a certain ammount of DMT though, if the harmalas in the brew are minimal they are sort of overpowered by the DMT and then it is alot like psilocybin.

Mushrooms have never shaken me to the core the same way Ayahuasca has. But Ayahuasca never makes me laugh. I would not WANT to go walk around outside and explore nature while drinking Ayahuasca (though passing out under a tree might be nice, if I could get to an outhouse... ). They are both BEAUTIFUL and AWESOME and totally healing.

The type of reprogramming they do also feels slightly different. Mushrooms, afterward, feel like the word they did was less intricate but very steady. I don't feel scared to take them any way close to the way Ayahuasca always scares me (pre-flight anxiety).

Love them love them both!

Hey christian, It could be good enough though you can also lower your viridis dosage so it doesn't overpower your caapi, as Fractal suggested.
But then again it's up to you and the way you want to work with these medecine.
I always put a bit of chaliponga in my brews so even with 25grams viridis, a few grams of strong chaliponga (like 5 grams) makeks a difference and potentiate the viridis.

Thanks Rom, Ray, Fractal, ms manic.

- I think what you have all said puts me at ease a lot more. A friend on mine,(sigh) once did a pretty massive dose of shrooms and coped with it well. (Although he could see others losing it at this dose), and i guess that it must have been similar to a pretty strong Aya trip also. Of course they both have their different natures and sense of claritiy i'm sure, and i guess Ayahuasca is the "holy grail" of all shamanic tools. Shrooms perhaps being those helpers along the way, to test ones will, i guess.

- Only one way to find out, as they say! I hope to do traditional ayahuasca soon. But not just yet! THANKS.

-EDIT. YES, I'll consider what you guys said about keeping the Caapi high and viridis lower, and will add some chalipong into the mix when i have the opportunity to try. I'll report back HERE when i'm about to give it a try,etc.

-Thank you all, Chris.

IMHO Mushrooms can't even touch Mama Aya.

Even a week ago, I took 7gr on the money and had to lay there focused to START to enter anything like the places any form of DMT takes me.

Mushrooms are always predictable for me.
Take em, don't feel much for a bit except tired, then suddenly I find everything hilarious, then some mild visuals, [...]
I rarely get any OEV except for "sparkles" on the edges of things or halos around sources of light.
I do however get the "at home" feeling that DMT/Aya give me.
AND I NEVER have a "bad trip."
I do get a VERY pleasant body high too...

Now Ayahuasca/DMT on the other hand is so sporadic and varying in effect/intensity...
Even with the same dose taken on different occasions, I never know what I'm in for.
Aya has much more of a spiritual feeling for me.
Like, instead of looking at random things outside and pointing out how funny they are,
I just lay there with my eyes closed, basking in bliss, pondering many many many things.
There's been many times where throughout the ride I've prayed for the journey to end,
but after the fact, I'm always happy I embarked on it.
As for OEV & the world around me, it's usually too much to even attempt to walk around.
And as far as body buzz goes, I usually forget I have one, even at low doses.
DMT just rocks my world, period.


To sum it all up...
If I want to be social and goofy, I take mushrooms.
If I want to feel like I'm actually "learning" something, Aya.
This is just how I feel though.

"Even a week ago, I took 7gr on the money and had to lay there focused to START to enter anything like the places any form of DMT takes me."

Sounds like weak mushrooms might be your problem there..7 grams of cyans and you would most likely be praying for your life..I have lost my identity on mushrooms and been taken every bit as deep into hyperspace as any ayahuasca brew or DMT I have taken...and I have taken alot. Mushrooms actaully frighten me more than ayahuasca at times simply becasue at those sort of doses the experience lasts longer...for me anyway.

I have had weak cubes that even at 5g dont really build up to a deep experience at all..and then really strong cubes where 2-3g is my limit and I will spend hours on the floor just trying to breath and hold on. I have taken mushrooms that brought me to alien planets filled with cybernetic beings and mushrooms that brought singing ferries into this world with me..

Interesting reply there, Turbatus.

- I guess your Ayahuasca experience is kinda what i thought it was gonna be like. However, i'm sure that some people have had a much more intense shroom experience than the one you are describing. It sounds like you are describing weak shroom effects than some that some people have had. I guess it depends if they are fresh strong ones,etc...

- Thanks for that info, much appreciated. I'm really looking forward to that day. Incidentally can you give me your Ayahuasca quantities used, to get the experience you're describing-just to get an idea. Although i'll start small& work up...Chris.

I believe you and that seems logical but, IDK, mushrooms just never get me there.
It doesn't matter where I get them.
Mushrooms also never last more than a couple hours for me though.
My friends take a couple grams and they're gonzo for a good bit.
On the same note, Pharma/Aya of any sort never lasts more than about an 1-1.5 hours for me either O.o
Unless I mix in belladonna or alike (don't hate, I don't condone it and I have ALOT of experience with it.)
I've mentioned that on here before under a different (now forgotten) account & people acted like I wasn't brewing right.
I just believe people react differently... or, Maybe I'm broke
Seriously though, this has been a local topic of discussion many times.
I don't want to thread jack though.
I actually planned on making another thread about this topic.