My 00 gelcaps hold a bit over 600mg of the 4:1 extract, and she had a nice 6-hour journey with 25 gelcaps. I was taking them 5 at a time, every ten minutes, so it came in waves. Stomach acted a bit funky with that many caps though, so next time I'm going to try it in a smoothie, since brewing it seems like a bit of a waste of energy to me.

.
Thanks for the kind words Dorge & MC - much appreciated.

Anytime... I hope you get to feeling better soon. Hopefully this won't discourage you from continuing this again once you're completely off of your SSRI meds. I've been doing this but instead of caapi extract with the 4:1, I use syrian rue extract with the 4:1. It's definitely been beneficial for me, so hopefully you'll be able to get good results with it as well.

I wish you the best regardless.

Aww...thanks MC - this is such a lovely place!

No, far from putting me off, this experience has made me all the more determined to come off these things. In a way this episode proves just how much Caapi/Rue harmalas can affect your Serotonin levels...which gives me hope that I can come off SSRIs knowing that Caapi is there as a temporary fallback if I run into withdrawal difficulties.

Thanks again for your support - just what I needed when I'm sitting here beating myself up for being such an idiot in the first place!

This is very important that you posted this. Thank you for contributing your experience. It is very common for people to be prescribed SSRI's for anxiety and depression, and therefore a high number of people interested in this topic are probably on such medications. I'm glad you're alright and PLEASE use proper common sense and caution next time, we need you to be alive, healthy and happy got it? (Now if I could only stop drinking beer which is also not a good combo with caapi.)

No need to be embarrassed, it seems like it would be a common mistake, after all such tiny amounts can fool you into thinking it will be ok. It's great that everyone is adding to this thread.

Contraindications and drug interaction For SSRIs

One major contraindication of SSRIs is the concomitant use of MAOIs (monoamine oxidase inhibitors). This is likely to cause severe serotonin syndrome/toxidrome.

People taking SSRIs should also avoid taking pimozide (an antipsychotic diphenylbutylpiperidine derivative). Tramadol hydrochloride (or Ultram, Ultracet) can, in rare cases, produce seizures when taken in conjunction with an SSRI or tricyclic antidepressant. Liver impairment is another contraindication for medications of this type.

SSRIs may increase blood levels and risk of toxicities of certain medications:

highly protein-bound medications like warfarin (coumadin) and digoxin
antiarrhythmic agents like propafenone (Rythmol) or flecainide (Tambocor)
beta blockers like metoprolol (Toprol xl) or propranolol (Inderal)
Tricyclic antidepressants like amitriptyline (Elavil, Endep) etc.
triptans like sumatriptan (Imitrex, Imigran) etc.
benzodiazepines like alprazolam (Xanax) or diazepam (Valium)[citation needed]
carbamazepine (Tegretol)
cisapride (Propulsid)
clozapine (Clozaril)
ciclosporin (Neoral)
haloperidol (Haldol)
phenytoin (Dilantin)
pimozide (Orap)
theophylline (Theo-dur)

Certain drugs may increase toxicities of SSRIs:

alcohol and other CNS depressants
methylene blue dye
diuretics (water pills)
MAOIs – possibly fatal serotonin syndrome/toxidrome
sympathomimetic drugs like pseudoephedrine (Sudafed)
lithium
sibutramine (Meridia)
MDMA (ecstasy)
zolpidem (ambien)[75]
dextromethorphan (cough suppressant) – increased risk of serotonin syndrome/toxidrome
tramadol (synergistic serotoninergic effect said to increase risk of seizure or serotonin syndrome/toxidrome)
pethidine/meperidine – increased risk of serotonin syndrome/toxidrome
herbal Saint John's wort or yohimbe – increased risk of serotonin syndrome/toxidrome

SSRIs also directly interfere with ligands of 5-HT receptors, like the psychedelics and entactogens. SSRIs strongly attenuate the effects of tryptamine psychedelics like psilocybin and LSD, and almost completely eliminate the serotonergic effects of phenethylamine psychedelics like mescaline and MDMA. The exact mechanism that causes this interaction is still unclear.[citation needed]
[edit] Mechanism of action

SSRIs are believed to act by inhibiting the reuptake of serotonin after being released in synapses. How much an individual will respond to this, however, also depends on genetics. In addition, several other mechanisms are suggested for the desired effect, e.g. neuroprotection and anti-inflammatory and immunomodulatory factors. Taken together, SSRI has several advantages compared with tricyclic antidepressants (TCA)s and 5-HT-prodrugs. However, the latter might be required in addition to SSRIs in certain situations.
[edit] Basic understanding
Further information: Chemical synapse

In the brain, messages are passed between two nerve cells via a chemical synapse, a small gap between the cells. The (presynaptic) cell that sends the information releases neurotransmitters (including serotonin) into that gap. The neurotransmitters are then recognized by receptors on the surface of the recipient (postsynaptic) cell, which upon this stimulation, in turn, relays the signal. About 10% of the neurotransmitters are lost in this process; the other 90% are released from the receptors and taken up again by monoamine transporters into the sending (presynaptic) cell (a process called reuptake).

To stimulate the recipient cell, SSRIs inhibit the reuptake of serotonin. As a result, the serotonin stays in the synaptic gap longer than it normally would, and may repeatedly stimulate the receptors of the recipient cell. The current model of SSRIs (the Monoamine Hypothesis) assumes that a lower homeostatic level of serotonin is primarily responsible for depression. While this holds in cases of major depression, minor to moderate cases are not as clear cut, and may in fact be caused by excess serotonin in specific areas of the brain.

Some current research points to more than just a single type of chemical signaling - the classic synapse model - involving serotonin. Astrocytes are "helper cells" in the brain that do not participate directly in chemical signaling, but play a part in homeostasis for many chemical levels in the brain. Recent research[76] suggests that serotonin is one of the hormones regulated by astrocytes, and that astrocytes actually uptake, package, and resend serotonin in a way similar to neuronal axons, but do not have corresponding post-synaptic terminals, therefore appearing to function only to control the local levels of serotonin in the cerebrospinal fluid.

Still more research illustrates that the current model for the antidepressant activity of SSRIs may be misdirected, as a drug that works entirely opposite to SSRIs - Tianeptine, a selective serotonin reuptake enhancer - also exhibits antidepressant activity, especially in patients resistant to SSRI therapy. The effect of an SSRE in comparison to an SSRI requires that the nature of serotonin signaling in the areas of the brain related to mood and cognition needs to be further elucidated. If serotonin firing is regularly phasic (related to brain waves), or rapid and discrete, then SSRIs simply compress the signal potential at affected receptors (bringing down the maximum potential and bring up the minimum) by causing a constant leftover signal (serotonin left in the synaptic gap) coupled with weaker subsequent signals (due to the decrease in presynaptic serotonin available to send new signals). By this hypothetical model, SSREs increase the signal potential separation (min to max) at affected 5-HT sites by reducing the level of free cerebrospinal serotonin and increasing the amount uptaken into axons to send new signals.
[edit] Pharmacodynamics

SSRIs inhibit the reuptake of the neurotransmitter serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine or 5-HT) into the presynaptic cell, increasing levels of 5-HT within the synaptic cleft.

However, there is one counteracting effect: high serotonin levels will not only activate the postsynaptic receptors, but also flood presynaptic autoreceptors, which serve as a feedback sensor for the cell. Activation of the autoreceptors (by agonists like serotonin) triggers a throttling of serotonin production. The resulting serotonin deficiency persists for some time, as the transporter inhibition occurs downstream to the cause of the deficiency and therefore, is not able to counterbalance the serotonin deficiency. The body adapts gradually to this situation by lowering (downregulating) the sensitivity of the autoreceptors.[77]

Another adaptive process provoked by SSRIs is the downregulation of postsynaptic serotonin 5-HT2A receptors. After the use of an SSRI, since there is more serotonin available, the response is to decrease the number of postsynaptic receptors over time and in the long run, this modifies the serotonin/receptor ratio. This downregulation of 5-HT2A occurs when the antidepressant effects of SSRIs become apparent. Also, deceased suicidal and otherwise depressed patients have had more 5-HT2A receptors than normal patients. These considerations suggest that 5-HT2A overactivity is involved in the pathogenesis of depression.[78]

Most of the serotonin receptors on the surface of the cell are coupled to a G-protein inside it. These proteins activate or inhibit second messengers, which in turn affect transcription factors. Transcription factors are proteins that fit to the beginning of a gene and tell the cell to start using it.

These (slowly proceeding) neurophysiological adaptations of the brain tissue are the reason why usually several weeks of continuous SSRI use is necessary for the antidepressant effect to become fully manifested,[78] and why increased anxiety is a common side effect in the first few days or weeks of use.
[edit] Role in BDNF release

SSRIs act on signal pathways such as cAMP (Cyclic AMP) on the postsynaptic neuronal cell, which leads to the release of Brain Derived Neurotrophic Factor (BDNF). BDNF enhances the growth and survival of cortical neurons and synapses.[79]
[edit] Pharmacogenetics
Further information: Pharmacogenetics

Large bodies of research are devoted to using genetic markers to predict whether patients will respond to SSRIs or have side effects that will cause their discontinuation, although these tests are not yet ready for widespread clinical use.[80] Single-nucleotide polymorphisms of the 5-HT(2A) gene correlated with paroxetine discontinuation due to side effects in a group of elderly patients with major depression, but not mirtazapine (a non-SSRI antidepressant) discontinuation.[81]
[edit] Neuroprotection

Studies have suggested that SSRIs may promote the growth of new neural pathways or neurogenesis in rats.[82] Also, SSRIs may protect against neurotoxicity caused by other compounds (for instance fenfluramine) as well as from depression itself. SSRIs have been found to induce programmed cell death in Burkitt lymphoma and the brain tumors neuroblastoma and glioma with minimal effect on normal tissue.[83][84]
[edit] Anti-inflammatory and immunomodulation

Recent studies show pro-inflammatory cytokine processes take place during depression, mania and bipolar disorder, in addition to somatic disease (such as autoimmune hypersensitivity) and it is possible that symptoms manifest in these psychiatric illnesses are being attenuated by pharmacological effect of antidepressants on the immune system.[85][86][87][88][89]

SSRIs have been shown to be immunomodulatory and anti-inflammatory against pro-inflammatory cytokine processes, specifically on the regulation of Interferon-gamma (IFN-gamma) and Interleukin-10 (IL-10), as well as TNF-alpha and Interleukin-6 (IL-6). Antidepressants have also been shown to suppress TH1 upregulation.[90][91][92][93]

Future serotonergic antidepressants may be made to specifically target the immune system by either blocking the actions of pro-inflammatory cytokines or increasing the production of anti-inflammatory cytokines.[94]
[edit] SSRIs versus TCAs

SSRIs are described as 'selective' because they affect only the reuptake pumps responsible for serotonin, as opposed to earlier antidepressants, which affect other monoamine neurotransmitters as well, and as a result, SSRIs have fewer side effects.

There appears to be no significant difference in effectiveness between SSRIs and tricyclic antidepressants, which were the most commonly used class of antidepressants before the development of SSRIs.[95] However, SSRIs have the important advantage that their toxic dose is high, and, therefore, they are much more difficult to use as a means to commit suicide. Further, they have fewer and milder side effects. Tricyclic antidepressant also have a higher risk of serious cardiovascular side effects which SSRIs lack.
[edit] SSRIs versus 5-HT-Prodrugs
Further information: Prodrugs

Serotonin cannot be administered directly because when ingested orally, it will not cross the blood-brain barrier, and therefore would have no effect on brain functions. Also, serotonin would activate every synapse it reaches, whereas SSRIs only enhance a signal that is already present, but too weak to come through. In addition, hope for breaching the blood-brain barrier for causes such as severe depression is underway. The selectivity of the membrane can be reduced for a drug by injecting it in a concentrated sugar solution. The high osmotic pressure of the sugar solution causes the endothelial cells of the capillaries to shrink, which opens gaps between their tight junctions and makes the barrier more permeable. As a result the drug can enter the brain tissue.
[edit] SSRIs together with 5-HT-Prodrugs

Biosynthetic serotonin is made from tryptophan, an amino acid. In 1989, the Food and Drug Administration made tryptophan available by prescription only, in response to an outbreak of eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome caused by impure L-tryptophan supplements sold over-the-counter. With current standards, L-tryptophan is again available over the counter in the US as well as supplement 5-HTP which is a direct precursor to serotonin.
Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/...ons_and_drug_interaction

The size 000 gelcaps can hold up to an entire gram, especially if you use the tool to press down more powder into the caps from CapMquick. The only drawback is that the size 000 are hard to swallow for some people, big horse pills, but one can get used to them. 4 to 6 of them per day , with 2 to 3 in the morning and 2 to 3 in the evening before bedtime is what my cat enjoys now. This dosage does not bring on journeys, but instead is a maintenance.

For journey, one may be able to get away with just 12 to 14 size 000 gelcaps (with the 4:1 powder)(withto replicate the journey you've had. Warm water and ginger root can help with the funky stomach, my cat in times before has boiled ginger root in plain water and sipped on that about 20 minutes before consuming a bunch of gelcaps for a cactus journey. (He boiled cactus juice into a resin, dried it and then rolled it into small pieces and inserted them into the 000 gelcaps, total being 94 caps for the trip).

Seriously doubt that putting it into a smoothing is going to make things easier for you, may put you off from smoothies for good, but then again, some people can work their mind to tolerate it. Why do you feel brewing is a waste of time?

Please keep us updated about your progress, and please don't hesitate to include the good, bad, ugly and miraculous results, especially how long it took you to get the SSRI's out of your system, or at least how long it took until you felt balanced or better. I had severe withdrawals from SSRI's for a good two or three months after stopping them cold turkey. It was awful, but at the time I had no clue about entheogens, so it was very scary and the only thing Ihad to help me feel better was alcohol, not a good substitute.

Hope that you will have at least a couple of caring people around you to help support you during this time of transition. We're all here for you on the forum if you get overwhelmed.

.

Thanks m-psy - very much appreciate the good vibes, and your Wiki-quote which was fascinating.

I will happily bore everyone senseless with reports of my progress escaping these substances.

So far...20 years of severe depression (without having a clue what it was)...then 12 years on SSRIs. Over the last 5 years, managed to v-e-r-y gradually reduce the dose from 40mg down to < 5mg/day...now I've just got to lose that last 5mg!

Ah well...here goes...

(Thanks again for your kind support, and glad to hear you've fought your way free.)

Wow magick you eat a lot of caps lol!!
So what your saying is your taking about 3-4 grams of the 4:1 extract 3x daily.
That's much easier for people to follow as gel caps will weigh differently depending on how they are packed and what hey are packed with etc.
So letting us know the approximate weight and dose is very helpful.

I don't find the powder taste to be difficult in any way, so I think it will be fine in smoothies. Since the harmalas have already been extracted, and there are no tannins left in the powder, it doesn't make any sense to me to use the gas to boil the water and reduce. To take a larger amount, it doesn't make sense to waste the gelcaps either. The powder doesn't dissolve well in water, so the smoothie is just to distribute it evenly through something that I can drink down.

Yes the gelcap thing is not totally accurate, and as you and everyone else knows, even the batch you order can vary from one batch to another. But a very overlooked variable is also your particular mindset. For some reason, people have been experiencing very different effects with the same exact dosages, so I know it's already been said a million times before, but I want to emphasize this again that it's important to microdose and it's better to not have a high enough dosage at first than too much.

Can always add a tiny bit more in the next course, also I think it's a good idea to keep a log or diary for a few months where you record your exact dosage, food intake, and a brief description of what went on that day. It may seem like a lot, but I've been able to discover a whole new area of solutions like this.

Let us know how the smoothie went, specifically if it was able to help cover the taste, and if it ended up actually tasting good. Maybe a recipe?

UPDATE: SWIM has been getting a lot of emails about this post, especially ones asking for a most cost-efficient method. SWIM is no longer using 200x caapi copy. Instead, SWIM is now using the Forestrx.com (4:1 caapi/ayahuasca extract). SWIM is using ten size 000 gelcaps filled with the 4:1 extract daily or semi-daily. (Some days I only take 3 to 6, and sometimes I skip a day or two)

The Forestrx.com extract is high quality, fresh, and very effective, while at the same time being quite smooth and organic on the body and mind system. The spirit is of Mother Earth/Mother Ayahuasca, nurturing, gentle, but firm in getting to the root of your problems.

If you understand the spiritual side of ingesting medicines, then you'll understand this next statement by me: Caapi works very well by itself, but in conjunction with a positive spiritual regimen, it can boost both your spiritual goals and your physical,emotional and mental goals. (boosting extra sensory perceptions, IQ, etc.)

SWIM ingests the caapi approximately 20 minute before doing the Lesser Banishing Ritual of Pentagram and the Middle Pillar Ritual. (White Magick) With excellent results. SWIM is currently using "Modern Magick" by Donald Michael Craig in conjunction with the entheogenic microdosing with excellent results. The rituals in the book have made me psychologically stronger than I ever have been before.

Have not had a major depressive episode since my venture into caapi. There are ups and downs, but the downs are manageable, and I do not suffer under the stress or pain like before. Hard to express in words, and really needs to be personally experienced to fully understand.

I thought I'd share this, because it is like a miracle for me in my life to finally have this deep, dark fog lifted off me and away from my life. I would have NEVER in a million years been able to even imagine this kind of well-being for myself. So, by sharing maybe someone else can find healing and more well being in their life too. Do you have similiar experiences?

P.S. Dosage will vary on personal circumstances. This is NO replacement for therapy, counseling or medical assistance. Please educate yourself before you take this, especially if you are on medications. Small and reasonable microdoses to acclimate your mind and body are recommended, perhaps just one or two gelcaps a day to test and then work from there.

I'd like to also add that it seems that the combination of ritual white magick and the caapi is working towards less dependency on the extract and an ability to manufacture similar chemicals from one's own body. (This is why there have been days where SWIM has been able to skip taking the caps or only takes half the dosage). So it looks like caapi will work towards showing you how to produce your own medicine eventually, without having to be dependent on any external factors. The rituals themselves are like a trip/ journey all on their own, especially if one does them with sincerity of intent and on a daily basis. Will update on this too in the future months.

[bUPDATE[/b]

It's been 2 years and I have totally eliminated that black downward spiraling cloud of depression in my life that I had for most of my life. At around 10 months or so of taking all those gelcaps daily, I began to naturally taper off. At some point I realized I had not taken any caapi for an entire month. Now it's over 2 years later, and although I still experience a wide spectrum of emotions and moods, the downs never last more than a few hours. The longest I've felt down was for a couple of days, whereas it used to be chronic and lasted for years.

I admit there was a lot of hard work involved, and I did have to face a lot of scary things that rose to the surface, but caapi has been a life saver. This year I think I've taken caapi a total of 5 times and those where times when I was in an unusually high amount of stress.

Don't get me wrong, there are still challenges in life, with ups and downs, but I actually can function and thrive. When I do take caapi , it's one or two day's max and then there are several months in between. Thank you Aya for your love and healing.

Thanks a lot for the update, i'm glad to read your positive story

thanks for letting us know that your doing better! it sure is great reading this

and don't think you've plateau'd or anything! there are no limits to the peace and happiness you can feel/be