anybody ever attempted it? There seems to be very little information on it

SWIM will make a small test attempt with some 25g of epená (virola) snuff.. Will do a normal A/B with glacial acetic acid, sodium hydroxide and naphtha as the NPS

Now there are a few important questions about it..

1- what is the pka of 5-meo?

2- Is 5-meo like harmine/harmaline that with a too high pH, they are destroyed, or is it more like dmt, which is very stable in very high pH solutions such as in the STB teks using large amounts of NaOH? What about with low pH of an A/B, any worries there? Or in other words, what pH should SWIM be aiming for in each step

3- Is a defat important? SWIM is a bit affraid of emulsions in the defat step

4- Can 5-meo be freeze precipitated in naphtha? The only information on solubility SWIM found was in 69ron's post in the drugs forum (very nice info btw), but SWIM doesnt know from it if freeze precipitation would work or only evaping.


any more experiences, information, tips or opinion in general are greatly appreciated

A while back I spent an entire weekend searching the web for the pKa of 5-MeO-DMT and could not find it. If anyone knows PLEASE SHARE THE INFO WITH US!!!!



That’s another unknown. It’s assumed to be very stable, but might not be. 5-HO-DMT is not stable in high pH. To be safe, no higher than pH 10 should be used. Many compounds cannot withstand higher pH levels and start degrading at pH 11 and up.



On epena snuff, not bark?



If I recall correctly, SWIM tried freeze precipitating it in heptane and worked.



This is a lonely road. Very few people have successfully extracted 5-MeO-DMT from epena.

In SWIM’s experience only virola resin contained much 5-MeO-DMT. None of the other epena products were any good, containing only extreme traces of alkaloid.

5-MeO-DMT seems to degrade pretty rapidly, which may explain all the horrible yields people are having. SWIM’s once potent virola resin is noticeably losing potency after being stored a few months in an airtight container.

According to Trouts notes #FS-X4 the pKa of 5meo is 9.3

THANKS FOR THE INFO!

That's similar to bufotenine's (5-HO-DMT) pKa of 9.67.

I don't have a copy of that one. Where can I get a copy of that?

Does he give a reference for the information?

excellent info! I love this forum




pH 10 it will be then



yes snuff



SWIM was thinking about this, and came to the thought that it might very well be 5-meo-dmt n-oxide, which could theoretically be reduced to the parent compound through the zinc dust method.. What do you think? I guess that would be a logical degradation product, and a logical fix to it.. I guess its worth the try, SWIM doesnt have zinc dust yet but knows his chems supplier carries it.. Maybe friday SWIM goes there to get it, and does the xtraction over the weekend.

is there any info around on % of alkaloids in virola snuffs out there? Just to have an idea what yield SWIM might get.. maybe 25g of snuff will be too little, but SWIM doesnt want to use so much of the snuff as it is original yanomami made that a friend brought from the amazon, not something u get everyday

in any case, whenever this is done, results will be posted back

Doesn't seem to be a reference there. Got it from a now defunct seed vendor, Gnostic Garden. Wonder if its incorparated into the recent 'Some Simple Trytamines'...

So SWIM is finally doing this extraction

He soaked 25g of epena snuff in acetic acid acidified water (no pH measured), left for 24 hours, filtered, repeated the process for 48 hours, and then again for another 48 hours. Then put all the water together, boiled down in low fire to 500ml, and now will basify with NaOH and make 4x 50ml naphtha pulls and leave to evaporate

how much NaOH is needed to basify 500ml of water to pH 10.5? I guess nobody will answer in time so SWIM will just add slowly and see if his pH papers can read (the water is quite thin, no solids like with mimosa)

oops

SWIM added one tiny spoon thinking it couldnt be too much, and checked the pH with papers and it was ph 13! Hope the alkaloids didnt break down, lets see...

If it’s anything like bufotenine, it was destroyed at pH 13. Let's hope not.

This is why you should use sodium carbonate in nearly every extraction unless a very high pH is needed. At most the pH will get to pH 11.4 with sodium carbonate, but it takes a ton to get it that high.

yeah definitely sodium carbonate would be the way to go.. The thing is SWIM didnt have any sodium carbonate in the house, and is going to move to another country very soon, so doesnt want to get more supplies for now, just wanted to do a test.. there was some ammonia but the smell is so nasty, just didnt want to play with it right now haha. But next time once he gets everything set up in the new place, for sure would do this with sodium carbonate

lets see, its evapping, will probably be ready only tonight or even tomorrow.

So SWIM's process was basically to leave standing for long time and filter, 3x.. Did no defat. Simmered down to lesser amount. Then put in this graduated hdpe bottle



Then since its not transparent and too wide (so pulling with pipete would not be very accurate), SWIM lowered a tall thin glass under the whole mix



This way it was easier to pippette out. Notice how much emulsions formed.. A bit could be broken off with a toothpick or similar, so SWIM just took out what was possible and threw the rest back in the mix. Then threw some salt to break the emulsions more perfectly.. Made 1x100 and 3x40ml pull. A bit excessive even, considering the small amount of snuff used, but as said, it was just a test to see if there would be anything in the snuff (and to maybe finally try some 5-meo)

well something came out

its an oily reddish substance so far, but for sure there are still traces of solvent as SWIM can smell a little bit. But SWIM can also smell something that is very similar to DMT

could epena snuff have considerable amount of DMT, or maybe 5-meo-dmt smells like dmt? anybody knows?

SWIM is scrapped the oil and rubbed it back on the walls of the evaporating dish, to see if it crystallizes (works with dmt sometimes).

Since SWIM didnt defat, there may also be some other plant substances, dont know.. Will wait a few more hours see if it hardens up, and then take some pics

so it became a small bit of oily yellow/brown/red something.

it weighs 0.1 in SWIM's scale (which only has a 0.1 accuracy). If this was pure 5-meo-dmt, it could maybe give 10 doses.. But SWIM doesnt know even if there is 5-meo-dmt in it. It could have degraded due to high pH (to what could it degrade to?).

Itmight have not been there at all. Maybe it oxidized before having been extracted, due to being for a while in a finely powdered snuff. Is 5-meo-dmt n-oxide naphtha soluble? Maybe this is some of what came out.

before SWIM thought it had a bit of dmt smell but now doesnt anymore, maybe SWIM was mistaken before. though it does have some peculiar smell


how does 5-meo smell like?

SWIM will give another 24 hours to evaporate and if tomorrow is still the same, will soak some herbs and try smoking a tiny bit.

here's how it looks

5-MeO-DMT N-oxide is totally insoluble in naphtha.



It smells a little similar to DMT, but much more medicinal. Put a tiny bit on your tongue (about 0.2 mg so it doesn’t do anything to you). If it’s 5-MeO-DMT it will burn your tongue.



It’s likely got oils in it that need to be removed. Try freeze precipitating in it naphtha. That has worked for SWIM.

Be careful. Smoking as little as 10 mg of 5-MeO-DMT can be seriously overwhelming for some people.

SWIM recommends that you dissolve it in acetone and dilute it 10 times its weight in calcium carbonate. It will dissolve more evenly onto calcium carbonate than any herb. It will then be easier to measure out the doses when dry.

yes this is all good advice, also about the cleaning and all.

but SWIM only made with small amount, so 0,1 is too little to clean up, basically too little for SWIM to handle in his innacurate scale would be left. As long as its not solvent remains, a little bit of plant oils wont hurt anybody, will they?

So SWIM will try as is, just a bit, and for next time already knows that no NaOH should be used, that a defat should be done, and that freeze precipitating would be better

even if first time doesnt go all perfect, its always good learning with practice

That looks like plant oils! May be some alks in there tho!

yes there may be some alks, at least it does smell a bit like 69ron described

It is still evaporating, didnt check today yet to see if it hardened up a bit

in SWIM's new house he will have a better scale and all, so he will post back when he makes new attempts.

also might try smoking this oil sometime in the next week, if so will post the experience here