Obliguhl - Let me preface what I'm about to say with the simple statement that I ABSOLUTELY understand what you're going through, and the fact that you even had the sack to post this thread means you are on the road to self improvement. The double edged sword that IS social anxiety is also why it's one of the most under diagnosed and under treated anxiety "disorders" in the world. The shear fear of being judged by others is exactly what keeps SA suffers from seeking help. Simply bringing it up here (even though it's a safe / anonymous environment) is a bold move on your part, and you are to be commended.

This statement:
I know all too well also. To this day I'm very frustrated with the "model of success" that we've all been brainwashed to believe is truth. It's just WRONG IMO to be boxed into a consensus lifestyle if it has nothing to do with what one's self considers success (but that could be whole new thread).

Beta blockers are not "bad" per se. They are pretty damn safe, non addictive, and can be taken on an as needed basis. Like benzyme (I think) stated, propranolol can work extremely well. It is not a mind numbing drug, all it does is lower the physical effects of overactive adrenal responses. With that said, I feel that they should only be used as a temporary aid to assist with cognitive therapy, and if you can get along without them, even better!

As someone else on the thread mentioned, just going out and putting yourself in social situations, and "facing your fears" can actually, sometimes be self defeating, because as you know, with social anxiety the fears can easily assert themselves in real world situations. Often times when you try and "face your fears" bad things DO happen (embarrassment, rejection, selective mutism, etc.), only serving to reinforce (and VALIDATE) your fears. It's not like Agoraphobia, where you can just go outside, not die, and take a step forward(not to downplay Agoraphobia, just pointing out a fundamental difference). Often times the outcome of a social meltdown will make you worse off than you were BEFORE you attempted the contact. Therefore, this kind of approach needs to be well defined, well directed, approached properly.

Have you checked out Charles Linden (The Linden Method)? There are some naysayers, but mostly there are hard core supporters of his work. I wouldn't be surprised if I got slammed by someone on here for bringing up such "blasphemy", but imho the guy is genuine and knows his shit. His techniques started helping me from the moment I started reading / listening to him.

Linden's method is based on the theory that the triggers for our fight or flight responses get overly sensitive due to a variety of social conditioning, and other factors. His technique teaches that you can reset these trigger points back to baseline, by using a variety of cognitive and social exercises. As a sufferer, turned benzo addict before a long recovery period, he too warns against relying on pharmaceuticals.

All I can say is that I am a VERY, VERY, VERY skeptical person when it comes to supposed miracle cures piped over the internet, and therapists that have no experience in the subject matter, but this method is neither of those, and one I can personally speak to it's legitimacy. Besides helping me with social anxiety, I found that I could apply his techniques to many other things in life that ailed me. It quite literally & simply, changed my perspective on approaching negative things. This concept right here is critical btw. If you're going out to "face your fears" you need have already SET the mindset in your brain, BEFORE you even get to the fearful situation. This is why simply "facing your fears" does not always work and can be detrimental if not properly prepared. You need the training before you go blindly into the jungle, if you plan to survive.

SA should not be bundled in with the other "irrational fear" based anxieties because SA fears are REAL. We truly are judged by the way we present ourselves to others, and a meltdown will most certainly change someones view of you if they don't know you as the true person that you are. i.e. "He lacks confidence, and probably wont get the job done"... Shit like that...

Check him out man. I think you'll like him and learn a lot from him to help you heal. He's not a scammer, or crazy snake oil salesman. He's a very genuine guy who has been through a fuck load of shit, and knows how to connect with others and teach what he has learned over the years. I have no doubt that using the proper psychedelics in conjunction with Linden, would be very beneficial as well. You can download his program on line (for free, or with a money back guarantee in most cases), and his program includes a support hotline.

Good luck my man, and you should know that I find you to be one of the most honest, and genuine guys in this place. I really think that's a special trait that may have manifested from your SA.

And remember that you don't have a disease, or imbalanced neurotransmitters, you simply have an overactive response to specific fears, and you have the power within you to change that!

Peace brother! I'm pulling for you!
-idt

Oblighul,

This helps me in difficult moments: LIFE IS JUST A GAME!

Dont take everything so seriously...we are all equal, it is not because another guy seems to have acheived more, that he is worth more than you. Just the fact that you are alive, that the universe has given YOU the opportunity to participate in this cosmic GAME means that you are needed here. Life would not be the same without you!! Just sending you lot's of love man!

Thanks for the compliments polytrip. Am I this open around here? I basically feel like an open person but then i ask myself: Would this be different if i had something to lose? I guess you never have anything to lose as long as you play along every lifes situation...

transitory, i would agree that self esteem is an issue here. I've read some parts of the book and it definatly reminded me of some cognitive disfunctions i have..you really need to be reminded constantly in order to make them stop. You might be right, that most people have some issues with other people, but its always a question of the level of social interaction..you can be disfunctional on a higher level and get along fine in most situations of everyday life. Thanks for your time and thoughts

kaleidoscope eyes, nice to hear you improved. I also plan to visit at least one psy festival this summer....

idtravlr, very true word man. Failing makes things worse, and thats why it is important not to fail, and that perpetuates the anxiety. Everyone has to face their fears, true, but its beneficial to do it in your own pace. Unfortunatly, for someone like me, the time where plenty of these oppurtunitys were available is over (teenage years), and everyone is on a much higgher level of social interaction...so its hard. The biggest problem is to post a challenge and then fail because you didn't have the balls to actually DO it. That's horrible.
I've looked over the linden method, but i didn't see much new info..im at page 132..much generell advise. I agree with him, that you have to treat your fears like unwanted sensations, and that its a habit you have to unlearn. What did you like the most about the method? Or am I too impatient reading it?

Thank you people, its very nice to have all of you contribute such a huge amount of time, greatly appreciated! Oh and im also sending out positrive vibes to you teotenakeltje

Little late to this thread.

I read some research a few months back on social networking and found Keith Hampton's site. One fascinating study on there, which accelerated my own experience in this area, mentions that individuals who began using social networking tools began acting more socially in their daily lives. Obviously you feel comfortable using these tools within contexts where you share a deep interest, like the Nexus. Maybe engaging a less niche or less taboo interest might help? I found that once I began opening up of myself, that I could trust most of the people I engaged with online, and that trust began to bleed over into daily life. I still do not share as much in person, but the change in social interactions since putting myself out has really surprised me.

Another trick that worked very well for me:
start with a centering meditation
project an image of yourself in front of you, ~1.5m away
change the image to what it would look like when you feel very comfortable socially (relaxed but with alert eyes and a slight, kind smile perhaps)
give it some symbols of social activity, i used a ringing cell and plants growing densely around it to represent the natural sprouting of interrelated beings
focus interiorly again, and bring up the memory of a really good social time you had. if you can't think of one, make one up.
change the memory to make it more vivid, increase the brightness/darkness, make it bigger or smaller, rotate it's position in interior space, make it louder/quieter, saturate or white-out the colors, try switching between 1st and 3rd person - experiment a little, what works depends on the person and the state you're trying to access
begin working primarily with the sense you imagine most easily with, and then expand it to include the others
once you have engaged the memory, try to feel the state in your body
give it a color, see how it moves, feel if it has a texture or a sound
loop the feeling around in your body and speed it up, make it denser, whatever increases the state
after it's good and strong, push the feeling-object out of you, turn it around and "feed" it to the image of yourself
breathe more attention into the image, at least 6 breaths.
when ready, step into the image, or have it step into you, and try to get a sense of the difference in feelings.

don't do it for more than 10 minutes, once a day. Afterwards, give yourself a treat like a piece of chocolate or a delicious fruit.

Be cool, be well.

Edit: adding some ganja to this definitely accelerates the process, but get used to doing it all first by itself... give it maybe a week, then try it out.

Ayahuasca has composted my depression (which now feeds beautiful trees that grow glowing flowers), and I've been doing lots of work with Aya and changa to mop up the last of my anxiety problems.

I work with the medicine weekly, and I notice that if symptoms reappear during the week, they always crop up a day or two before due ceremony, like there is something literally IN THE MEDICINE that I have exhausted and I need to readminister to balance myself.

Initially, I could not separate myself from the anxiety. When I started feeling awful or panicking (when everything in my life is blessed and fine), I thought it was ME. I wondered what was wrong with ME... I did not identify it as a transient state that I could move beyond.

So, I began experimenting. Whenever anxiety would slap me in the face, I would take some form of the medicine, changa, full Aya tea, or a microdose of Aya (if the conditions for ceremony were not appropriate). ALWAYS, the anxiety melts, instantly. DMT does not numb me to my anxiety: it takes me straight to the core, to the most terrified and freaked out aspects of myself, it forces me to confront them, and THEN, with the love of the universe, propels me THROUGH them.

With changa, for example, last time, my initial intention was peace within myself and freedom from anxiety, and after experiencing the totality of my inner freakout (I felt the fear, wholly, all of it, but observed without reaction), a warmth rippled out of my heart and flooded my entire body. I felt my vibration "lift," which lifted my mood, improved my circulation (always have cold feet and they get hot when I "shift", became more flexible... just became more completely myself. It's like freeing myself from a kind of mental arthritis.

This has led me to conclude that anxiety is NOT the base level of functioning for consciousness. It could, perhaps, be a damaged part of my consciousness that is constantly in a state of panic, serious internal loops of errors that require heavy repair: the remedy seems to be to treat it with patience, love, compassion, and nurture it back to health.

I no longer get swallowed by my feelings of anxiety. Sometimes they HAPPEN, but I acknowledge them, understand them, and try to move forward.

If the anxiety has a slightest rational basis (I need to do laundry; I need to water my plants; etc.), I will sit down and write a note to myself. The note is extensively kind, full of love and gratitude, and is simply a list of all the things I need to do that are occupying my mind and triggering negative responses. The next day (usually after medicating somehow), I cross off the items and I do them: this seems to have no effect on the anxiety itself, but is at least a positive and very productive behavior I'm reinforcing, which will hopefully take over the sacred garden of my mind, once all of the weeds are pulled out. It also is a way of honoring and respecting the original impulse, without getting dragged away by it and falling further down the hole...

Close friend of mine is suffering from social anxiety and depression. Which has gotten worse some years ago.
Of course we talk about it very often. But in his opinion the talking and advice it doesnt really help. Its too complicated.

Nonetheless i see him change for the better. Slowly but surely i see him change his attention to other things that he likes doing and are still possible despite the anxiety. So my advice to you is dont forget to enjoy life. Go find what you can do. Enjoy the relief and happiness, and build from there.

that aint much but its well meant

Wish I could say more minxx to honor your post, but i enjoyed it!



Yes, that is what i try to do, but it inherently seem to have negative consequences. Yesterday, I came back from a day of social activity and was in a joyful mood. That led to me making comments in the Chat, people did not understand. Kyrolima then entangled me in some sort of mindgame you could describe as a mixture of a trollattack and a lesson in Zen, with the goal to activate my ego. I think Orion described it as being "mirrorfucked by your own WTF".

The thing is, i seldomly use so called "WTF" to provocate. It seems like I have already alienated quite a lot of members by my comments which seem to percieved as crass, silly, annoying or all three. But in my mind, they are what feels like the most authentic form of myself.

So..is it normal to control oneself to the extent of becoming a person driven by outside, social norms in order to connect to something other people believe to be the norm? That seems really sad. I mean, there are some people who "get" my ramblings like house or jungleheart, but there are not many.

Certainly, my intense communication style sometimes stems from the need to make true connections with people. But if noone gets my personality, even in circles with people who are the closest to me...what is the reason in being "social" at all...

If it is impossible to make a connection without shutting down certain personality traits one has come to enjoy? After all, this is not about mushroom mindmelts, but talking egos.

Social anxiety has also been my main bane in life... psychedelics helped me realise that the anxiety is the unconscious picking up on the weirdness of our current social climate. I no longer feel physically anxious around people... I just feel bad how what I wish to speak about, is not the norm to speak about. Ideally I'd learn to transcend the mundanity of everyday chatter..

People these days are STRANGE. And in a way I believe social anxiety is large part of the mass-neurosis that moderners suffer from - we don't know how to act to each other and many of us put on the personality ideal to get through the day in false smiles and supposed niceness. What we say to each other is often very trivial as well. I long for real meaningful conversation and likeminded people - I find little of it so I stay sort of a loner.

I'm too aware of the slippery slope of personality, transference and misrepresentation (a conflict between inner-self and outer-self).

It seems as if the slower something develops, the more it develops. Perhaps this is the same with social skills. Not settling for the mundane may actually lead one to being able to speak to the deepest levels of a persons soul and finding a "true communication" - This excites me...

Just as long as it's not used to a point where one becomes mildly or strongly addicted to Kratom. The withdrawals can be hell for anxiety sufferers. I speak from experience.

Since we're talking medications I actually think that MDMA likely has a lot of potential for use in SA therapy, allowing people to break barriers in typically fearful social situations. Breakthroughs which can sometime carry over into everyday life.

Peace,
-idt

I'm sure not everyone hates you. There may be some people who don't like you, but I'm sure it's not everyone. Socially, not everyone likes everyone, that's just the way it is. I know social anxiety very well. I've found the best attitude is to just embrace those who DO like you, and don't worry about those who don't. You don't have to dislike those who don't like you, just don't worry about it. Even if 99% of people don't like you, 1% of everyone is still a lot of people. Take those people and cherish them.

Really, if you asked out 100 women and all but one rejected you, it would still be good right? You only need the one right? But, unfortunately, for people with social anxiety, they will sometimes be so afraid of rejection and what other people think that they won't even try to find the 1 out of 100 people that they connect with. They'll just sit back and not even try to talk to anyone, thinking that everyone will dislike them. The world is filled with many people. Mingle. There's plenty of people for everyone.

No, that would be horrible because it would mean, that there is something seriously wrong with me to the degree, that i'm highly unacceptable. That low rate would bear the question, if this one girl would be simply misled by whatever sign.

The thing is, if im even misunderstood by nexians, how can ANYONE understand me?

There is something seriously wrong with my communication, yet..exactly this "faulty communication" is what i like about me, because it IS me.

Medication..I don't know....not really a fan of kratom, makes me feel really dull. MDMA i can'T comment on, but heard good things about it.



In my experience, this leads to getting ignored at best, or disliked.

I'm really distract able right now and I will read the thread later but I really would like to recommend this (there are torrents of it available too)

I am currently on session 6 and I am already blown away by how clear, logical and scientific-research-based all the things in the tape are. The reader/author describes in incredible detail the symptoms of anxiety as well as clear descriptions of the causes and of course solutions to them.
This is not a motivational tape like Tony Robbins puts out that you get excited about after listening to it then forget about a week later, the exercises are all forms of cognitive behavioral therapy that has been used to help hundreds of sufferers of social anxiety.

I could go on and on but I'll just say that if you suffer from social anxiety then you will at the very least learn a lot about anxiety and if you do the exercises you will learn to control your anxiety and eventually cure it completely.

For me, social anxiety stemmed from the fact that I would rather be by myself meditating than in a loud environment full of drunken idiots who are all trying to fuck each other, for example. Sure it took me a couple years to realize that it's OK to do things that normal people don't like to do, like quitting alcohol, or spending most of my time alone. I am glad I did, though.

My social anxiety stemmed from the fact that I was born into a society that I do not find harmonic with me and my ways of living. I am sure many people feel this way especially unconsciously. Once I realized this and made conscious steps to change my life and my environment to better fit who I am, I realized I no longer had social anxiety because I didn't put myself in the position to have it at all.

We are all unique creatures with different wants and needs and these subtle hints should be listened to and performed to the best of our abilities IMHO.

^ !YES!

I agree %100

You need to learn to say "who the fuck cares?"..because most likely you are the only one. If not..why should you care anyway? why are you so worried about what 1 person or even 100 people think? I have had numerous people think I am crazy as fuck and want to ignore me or not like me etc..once you really get into the zone of your pure or true being though you stop caring about any of that stupid shit..worrying about social situations like this is not productive to happiness is anyway. I have more than I could have ever dreamed of right now and I got it by being the biggest fucking weirdo I know because that is just who I am. If I held back I probly would not have attracted to myself what I have now.

Ah man, come on. First of all, even people with no social anxiety get rejected a lot by women. If you look in to it yourself, you'll find that even professional pick up artists get rejected a lot. I was making a couple of different points. First of all, you don't have to let rejection bother you because the reality is, everyone gets rejected a lot, and in every area of life. Business people get their ideas rejected, writers get their books rejected, musicians get their music rejected by lots of people before they find the right people to make things happen. On a social level, not everyone connects. This is the reality of life. I think people with social anxiety are under the false impression that rejection means failure, it means something is wrong with them. Then they develop this enormous constant negative inner dialogue which says that NO ONE likes them, the whole world doesn't understand them, so why even bother trying to talk to anyone? As you said, you believe that if a bunch of women rejected you, there is something wrong with you. I believe your assumption would be incorrect because rejection IS the norm. Just like a fisherman who casts many times, but only gets bites a couple times.

Another point is that people with social anxiety, to an extent, do it to themselves. You are the one telling yourself that you're highly unacceptable. This is why people tell you to not give a fuck. If you stop caring so much about what others think, you will stop negatively reinforcing yourself. Plus, I've found that the more accepting I am of myself exactly as I am, the happier I am, the more likely it is to show to other people. And the more I try to impress other people, not only do I feel worse about myself, but I fail to impress others anyway because I'm not being myself, it's phony, it just doesn't work.

You are anxious because you are different.

I have huge amounts of social anxiety, pretty much makes it unacceptable for me to work in an environment with more than a couple people, too much for me to digest, I dwindle.

I (feel I) face a lot of rejection too. And not just rejection, but complete disregard for what interests ME. Basically I'm completely offended by too many persons bahavior at me. I'm sure I worry about what they think, their judgments, not with conscious effort. Of course I don't REALLY KNOW what most people are thinking. Just the ones that I've talked to. The ones who have shut me down and written me off. I get it. I'm anxious because I'm different. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for another serving of stupidity. Or, alone, I can bathe in the oddity that is ME. I hope psychedelics may place a bit of perspective on each.

I don't openly admit it to myself (until now), but I got people figured out, in my delusional little mind. This is because of a lot of experience with rejection, abrupt judgment, stress over creating an impression, lack of hoped for results, not enough reassurance from the proper social facets and such. That's ok. The mind becomes more isolated, develops in it's own habitat well enough I hope.

The best thing I have done over 7 or 8 years of self loathing has been to INVIGORATE. I dunno, the word means a lot to me, and it's gotten inside me, and it's what helps me keep things new interesting. My exercise is always fun, often different, my social attitude is one of polite delight but looking for a chance to jump someones ass, (for morals or just for fun) and occasional lunacy, My problem is courage, and it doesn't come til I take it.

Just want to quickly say something:
For some people or in certain circumstances that type of thinking/strategy is completely useless. Sober I never experience anxiety that cannot be remedied by simple distraction, forced rational thoughts and other coping methods.
But when I take certain substance I get the most immense anxiety ever. It is so bad some times that I am unable to leave my room if my roommates are home to the point where I will not eat, I urinate in bottles and feel every noise I make is thunderous and sometimes avoid getting up from my computer chair at all. If I do force myself to leave my room I feel such torturous paranoid anxiety just looking at their door and wishing SO HARD that they stay in there.

I have felt similar feelings while sober but rational thinking quite quickly diminish the FEELINGS of anxiety but when I am experiencing substance-caused-anxiety the feeling is so overwhelming that it takes 10x the effort to attempt to distract myself and think rationally and it does not diminish the anxious feeling at all. The feeling is like the most intense guilt over everything you do, feelings of worthlessness and uneasiness over anything and everything.
Luckily I never experience anxiety this severe while sober but I bet many people do. I know that when I am not feeling anxious what you posted makes sense and works quite well but it is just useless words when I am experiencing that level of anxiety.

q21q21, I have started the training program you suggested. It makes sense so far and seems to have a similiar approach as that book about mood therapy that was recommended to me.

What you, fractal & house are essentially saying is: Be yourself, then you may find the strength you are looking for. But that "me" seems to be incapable of even sustaining relationships. I've severed ties with 4 friends in the last 4 years or so...and some i have known since childhood. It hurt, but it hurt more to be dissapointed by them. So what can you do?

Now everything seems to collapse. Last year i have had a huge fallout with the social group i participated in and lost contact to half a dozen of people. Then, connections to nexians started to get weaker, leading to my chat departure (for now). Colleagues insult and harass me. Today, a big fight started between my best friend and me, which could very well jeopardize our friendship. That would be Friend # 5.

I would love to "not give a fuck" - but people already say im cold, and that i'm at fault for provocing conflicts. So maybe they're right. Still, I feel completely different. I feel like someone in desperate need for love and comfort.

But then, im too far away from consensus reality and common communication patterns, or so it seems.

I really have thought about living a life as a hermit somewhere, or becoming a buddhist monk.

In the End, the mystery of life is the only comforting thing left.