Getting the right dose(s) is important in any drug or combination of drugs, this is because taking under or over a preferred dose is not good thing.

Evaluation of Taking Too Low a Dose: If someone takes too low a dose they will end up feeling disappointed as the probability is that the person who took the drug/combination of drugs was hoping for the drug/combination of drugs to have interesting effects but because they took too low a dose they get minor effects and they hope the effects will get more intense but they never do and the experience ends and most of the time they consider their experience to be a waste of drugs.

Evaluation of Taking Too High a Dose: Contrary to what the media says taking too high a dose with any drug doesn't always result in death or serious injury, it is however important that it is possible that these things might happen with many drugs/combinations of drugs but if the drug taker doesn't die or suffer serious injury they will have a bad time. 'Heroic doses' are not fun, projectile-vomiting into a toilet is not fun, feeling like you are going to die is not fun, being in an extreme state of dysphoria is not fun, considering killing yourself to escape your current situation is not fun and feeling ill in general is not fun. You are not a hero if you take a massive dose of any drug or combination of drugs and you do not get medals for taking overdoses.

So Now that We Know That Taking Too High or Low a Dose is Not Preferable, Which Doses Should We Take?

There are four dose options, these options are micro-dose, low dose, medium dose and high dose, note the lack of a 'heroic' dose.

Evaluation of the Micro-Dose: The micro-dose is taking a low dose of a drug that is barely noticeable as even taking a low dose of something like psilocin can alter a person's perception of reality. Micro-doses are not recreational but they have their purposes, such as experimentation or depression-control.

Evaluation of the Low Dose: The low dose is above the too-low-dose but below the medium dose.

Evaluation of the Medium Dose: The medium dose is what most users given an infinite supply of any pure drug will usually end up taking in a pattern. The medium dose is the ideal balance of positive effects and negative effects, this could be a minimum-nausea dose with the maximum euphoria possible without getting into the higher-nausea doses.

Evaluation of Taking the High Dose: The high dose is below a dangerous dose but above a medium dose, this dose is for getting the maximum effects of a drug/combination of drugs with all the side effects such as nausea in full-force.

Remember your mLMH!

Here is an example using optimally-vaporised DMT.

m: 8mg
L: 20mg
M: 25mg
H: 29mg

If you wanted to dose optimally-vaporised DMT at a medium dose you would refer to the mLMH chart and see that the medium dose is 35mg, you may find out that your mLMH chart differs from the average mLMH chart, this is possible and you should adjust your doses accordingly.

To get the most out of drugs you have to take the right doses, if you take the wrong dose then you are wasting your drugs, money, time and possibly your health!

Thanks , this is useful for new people
and 30mg is the ideal for me

Thanks for the nice write-up. I’m sure it will be helpful to people who are still trying to figure out what a “good” dose is.

Keep in mind that the effects experienced for any given dose are very much dependent on smoking device and technique. Also, dose effects depend on the weight of the subject – a 210 lb person will need 50% more DMT than a 140 lb person to experience similar effects.

In the Strassman studies, subjects received 0.4mg/kg DMT fumarate IV. For a person weighing 150 lb, this translates to a dose of about 21mg DMT freebase. In the final chapters of “DMT The Spirit Molecule”, Strassman reconsiders the dose size and suggests that a lower dose would have prevented some overly-intense experiences in volunteer subjects. He thought that 0.3mg/kg would have been appropriate. For a 150 lb person, this translates to about 16mg DMT freebase.

Now for some personal observations: I weigh about 150 lb and am able to vaporize a dose in my GVG quite efficiently. A dose of 20mg produces a strong bodily response but only faint CEVs. It is never a breakthrough dose.

Also, effects ramp up very quickly: a dose of 25mg usually produces a moderate to strong breakthrough. A dose of 28mg almost always yields a very strong breakthrough (out of body, divine participation, near-death experience, occasionally complete ego loss, etc.) A dose any higher than 30mg can produce blackout or extreme dysphoria. I have never deliberately consumed more than 30mg with my GVG. So 20mg is barely visual and 28mg is extreme.

I really think your suggested dose amounts should be lowered. I agree that 20mg is a low dose for visual effects (but high enough to produce most/all of the physical/bodily effects of a higher dose), but 35mg is a very high dose and 45mg – when consumed effectively – is definitely a “heroic” dose. Keep in mind that 45mg DMT freebase for someone weighing 150 lb is equivalent to nearly 0.9mg/kg DMT fumarate. That’s more than double what Strassman concluded was too high a dose.

So to new people I’d suggest starting at a low dose and gradually working up to whatever you find comfortable. Too high a dose your first time and you’ll probably be turned off of DMT and never want to try it again.

I changed the dose recommendations.

My feeling is that dose effects are so dependent on so many factors that it’s really hard to say what a good dose range is for any individual. The dose range I gave is what works for me, but that doesn’t mean it will work for others.

Just a few of the variables affecting dose and response: purity of DMT, weight of individual, smoking device and smoking technique, set and setting.

So when I say that 25mg is a moderate to strong breakthrough, that’s just for me (150 lbs, pure white DMT, GVG with good technique, etc.). For someone who weighs 225 lbs, is using very impure DMT, and is using a light bulb vaporizer with lousy technique, even 100mg might not be a breakthrough dose.

That’s why I always reference the Strassman study when dose issues come up – Strassman eliminated as many of the variables as possible, so the effects his study participants felt are probably closest (dose-wise) to what one would feel under optimal conditions.

Good thread!!

I agree with Gibran2 when he mentions the possible variables which can have a bearing on the level/depth of experience but Im not so convinced that extrapolating the dose taken IV for a heavy duty experience correlates that well with a vaporised dose.

IME, 40-50mg vaporised DMT in one breath is heroic enough for my tastes.I weigh 55kg so that makes the 50mg vaporised dose per kg of my weight equal to 0.909mg/kg; Im certain that this dose taken IV would produce a blackout for sure.50mg DMT(just over)as changa in one breath in a small bong was ridiculously heavy duty and so bizarre that a blackout was probably pretty close- but it was definitely not a blackout experience.The same applies to 45ish mg of freebase in the GVG, one breath and vaporised perfectly; this equates to 0.727mg/kg of my weight- seriously intense but not a blackout.

IME, its also the case that bumping up the dose by a few mgs only can dramatically alter the profundity of the experience.

Gibran,

I appreciate that dose ranges vary due to a number of factors. I would add that there are probably many more factors than those you list. I don't think this reduces the usefulness of Seraph's 'example' doses. I read them as a loose guideline, perhaps made more useful by being less ambiguous. I think they provide a good starting point for someone looking to try dmt for the first time. Including qualifications on everything from setting to age would result in more confusion than clarity.

I do think it might be useful to have the doses listed per kg bodyweight, or perhaps mention that bodyweight is a significant factor.

BTW-- has there been any real study of vaping dosage v. bodyweight? I know there was some work related to oral dosages (and IV), but haven't seen anything about vaped.

I would guess that body weight plays a role regardless of method of administration. Body weight correlates with blood volume, and a dose enters your blood stream before it gets to your brain, so blood volume determines, at least in part, DMT concentration.

I still think the biggest source of variability is smoking device and technique. With a sub-optimal device and technique, it’s possible that much of a dose will melt and run down a pipe stem, never to be vaporized. Other devices/techniques lead to extreme pyrolysis, maybe to the point where the majority of what is being inhaled is no longer even DMT but rather pyrolytic byproducts.

Back in my pre-GVG days, when I was still experimenting with devices and techniques, I remember once taking 8 hits and stopping not because I was feeling effects (I wasn’t feeling any effects), but because I was out of breath from taking 8 hits! Most of each inhalation was air mixed with just enough vapor/smoke to convince me I was actually getting effective hits (I obviously wasn’t).

Here’s a list from another post of mine that has a bit more detail concerning some of the variables affecting a DMT experience with a GVG. With other devices, the list would be even longer:

Factors Influencing a DMT Experience

· size of dose (how accurate is your scale?)
· substrate used (copper mesh, liquid pad, herbs, ash, screens)
· quantity/thickness of substrate (thick disc, thin disc)
· degree of contact between substrate and sidewalls
· porosity and uniformity of substrate
· distribution of DMT on substrate (evenly distributed, piled in one area)
· physical state of DMT on substrate (solid, liquid)
· presence/absence of DMT residue on substrate from previous uses
· presence/absence of DMT condensate on glass from previous uses

· presence/absence of DMT impurities (oils, plant material, solvent traces, oxide)
· nature of DMT solid state (fine powder, fluffy, granular)
· DMT crystalline structure

· number of inhalations to consume full dose (1, 2, 3 or more?)
· rate of inhalation (slow and gentle, fast)
· breathing immediately prior to inhalation (deep breaths?)
· depth of inhalation (how deeply did you inhale)
· holding time – how long is dose held in lungs?
· rate of exhalation
· total time taken to consume full dose

· type of lighter used (“Bic”-type, butane jet/torch)
· degree of pre-heating of ceramic filter (none, some, glowing red)
· distance flame is held from ceramic filter
· angle of flame (is it striking glass sidewalls?)
· lighter movement (held stationary, moved around, up/down, etc.)
· temperature of GVG (colder glass = more condensation = less consumed)

· familiar vs. unfamiliar setting
· indoors vs. outdoors
· preparation of setting (is setting clean, orderly, pleasant?)
· comfort level of setting (comfortable place to sit or lie down?)
· music vs. no music
· type of music
· volume of music
· presence/absence of distracting sounds (traffic, noisy neighbors, barking dogs, etc.)
· presence/absence of other people
· number of other people present
· degree of familiarity with other people present
· degree of sobriety of other people present
· degree of experience with DMT/other psychedelics of other people present
· light level (dark, dim, bright)
· ambient temperature and other environmental factors (humid?, windy?, stormy?)
· various other setting factors (doing it in a hot tub?, in a shower?)

· anxiety level immediately prior to consuming dose
· baseline psychological factors (are you generally anxious, depressed, happy, relaxed?)
· degree of experience with DMT
· nature of prior psychedelic experiences
· nature of pre-DMT ritual (if any)
· general physical state (energized, tired, aches and pains?, illness present?)
· general psychological state immediately prior to consuming dose
· physical/mental activities prior to consuming dose (long day at work?, walk in a park?, fight with spouse?)
· presence/absence of other drugs in system
· time of last DMT dose (30 minutes, 1 hour, 1 week?)
· presence/absence of foods in system that affect experience (MAOI-containing foods?)
· expectations regarding experience
· beliefs regarding the nature of DMT experiences
· physiological state (blood-sugar level, hormone levels)

Put that list to music, and it would make for an interesting song...

It certainly demonstrates that caution is called for when determining dosages, since so many factors can lead to a more intense experience than expected.

As a noob, I have routinely heard 50mg is 'the' standard-- so much for that myth.

When I started out with my GVG, I would do 20mg doses. With perfection of my vaporization technique over time, 10mg can actually be a pretty strong dose. I would be hesitant to completely avoid the "heroic dose" category as when people use that term it's relative to their own experiences and it does not necessarily entail a bad time. When I vape spice after taking pharma, I often consider the dosage to be what would be referred to as heroic, but I've yet to have a negative experience from it despite the sheer intensity. Usually after the first vaporization after consuming pharma, I find the need to quickly shuffle to the toilet for extremely intense vomiting, before making my way back to the comfort of the couch, but I don't consider these experiences to be negative either as they usually head upward from there. Also, some of the most intricate and complex visions I've ever had were mid-purge. I also don't believe that a medium dose is an "ideal balance of positive effects and negative effects." Even in a strong breakthrough (and most DMT experiences in general) I find there to be 90-100% positive effects most of the time. It's very rare that I experience negative effects at all beyond perspiration, "super fast-forward" and fear has only cropped its way in maybe 3% of all my DMT experiences, and I've had some extremely intense and significant ones.

This resonates pretty strongly with me as well. I remember on one pharma trip I was puking up little galaxies. Like micro milky ways. I'm glad I puked at that point because I could tell shit was about to get REALLY intense. After I purged things started winding down and it was a great ride.