Hello I'm new here, most of this is posted in my introduction essay. I'd really like to hear from others who may have gone through something similar as swim or have any helpful info. I'm also happy to share any info I can offer. Anyway, SWIM is an artist & he's struggled with an opiate addiction for the last few years of his life. In the darkest time of swim's life, to the point of almost giving up hope, through entheogens he was able to wake his soul up & find a new found hope for his life. He stopped the drug use(painkillers etc)but was put on suboxone by a doctor. SWIM took an Iboga flood dose last year he said it was a great experience & changed his life but due to being on suboxone over 6 months & its long half life, a few weeks post Iboga he relapsed due to Post Acute Withdrawl Symptoms(PAWS) of the suboxone.

Basically SWIM couldn't function normally & had severe depression, lethargy, insominia etc & of course using opiates instantly relieves this. SWIM wasn't aware at the time he did his flood that it takes 21 days or so for suboxone to actually clear the blood & leave the system, or of the horrible PAWS that follows. SWIM now knows after plenty of research that to realistically stop suboxone one needs to taper down to a low dose of suboxone before stopping & switch to a shorter acting opiate for at least 2 or 3 weeks prior to the Iboga flood. So SWIM has now tapered down to a low dose, less than .5mg suboxone(& is still tapering lower)& will be stopping the suboxone this month. His original plan is to switch to tramadol(or another shorter acting opiate)for a few weeks before doing his Iboga flood. Another member here had concerns about using tramadol before Iboga:

corpus callosum wrote:"I dont know if switching from a low dose of suboxone to tramadol would be the way to go.I agree, switching to a shorter-acting mu agonist for a few weeks before taking the iboga would be wise, but tramadol is quite a weak mu agonist (one of its metabolites is more potent in this respect) plus has effects on serotonin and noradrenaline receptors which have their own distinct (and by all accounts, unpleasant) withdrawal effects.I think making this switch would cause more immediate 'lack of satisfaction' then say switching to compounds such as morphine, oxycodone or heroin.I personally would choose one of these three, depending on availability.

I also think that its not established clearly how iboga alkaloids would affect someone who had their mu, serotonin and noradrenaline receptors 'fatigued' by tramadol.I would strongly advise that this be borne in mind."

So swim is now thinking about changing his plan, though he would really rather not go back to taking strong opiates even short term after being clean for almost a year. Swim knows there will some amount of discomfort in this process, & is ok with that. His goal is to basically minimize the PAWS as much as possible. Swim also plans on taking Iboga boosters/low dose Iboga after the initial flood as needed.

Hey evolutionofone,

Has this person given Kratom a chance yet? I've heard a lot of good feedback
of Kratom helping with opiate withdrawal/dependency. Although it's not
your traditional opiate, it does work on mu at higher doses. I'm not
sure what this persons philosophy is about treating opiate dependency with
a different opiate, but Kratom seems to have good results among users.

As far as Iboga goes, I recently watched this documentary:
http://video.google.com/...ocid=-564658062434233044

This person has probably watched it but if not, the video
is focused on treating withdrawals with Iboga sessions.
It covers many different personal experiences and shows
you the treatment process and a lot of interesting stuff.
Sorry I couldn't help more, but a little information
is better than nothing.

Good luck to this guy!

BM

Do you smoke/ingest cannabis at all? It might lessen the withdrawal symptoms, etc.

Just add water, sunlight, and some music. Pills =

If you can get down to 200mcg of buprenorphine daily then another pretty good option (and I think probably better than tramadol) would be switch to codeine or dihydrocodeine instead.These need to be used 4 times a day, are a pure mu agonist and if you are firm in your resolve you could probably taper down to zero after a period of 2 weeks or so.PAWS from this approach should be quite alot more manageable than that which you experienced last time.Plus the dynamics of iboga alkaloids with these agents will be much more predictable as these dont mess around with your serotonin and noradrenaline receptors.

¨^¨what Corpus Collapsum said about switching to codeine, and then if you want a flood I'd suggest you to visit this dedicated forum to iboga in a healing context, lots of poeple have manage coming off opiates there for good.
http://eboka.info/index.php

Ketamine could also be quite helpful for opiate withdrawal!

^^Indeed!And DXM would be even better/more accessible.

IMO, MXE would be useful once the withdrawal is overcome, in order to get a useful perspective on things.And I think one would probably need only 10-15mg aublingually or orally to achieve this.

Its good you bring up Kratom. Swim had almost forgotten about it! He has tried it in the past & it does kind of work. He did have withdrawls from the Kratom after a week or more straight....though using Kratom before an Iboga flood shouldn't be a problem since the Iboga would hopefully take care of any Kratom withdrawls. Swim would be much more comfortable taking Kratom than one of the opiates that got him into this mess in the first place! Thanks bassmethod, he will watch the video & definitely appreaciates your response/info.

Swim has found ingesting cannabis to be slightly helpful, after the initial withdrawl is over at least(not much helps with that) Years ago swim smoked regularly. He rarely smokes it anymore.....it seems opiates really ruined it for him. It now makes him feel paranoid & uncomfortable unfortunately. Other friends of his who have had opiate addictions say similar things about the way cannabis affects them, even after being clean from opiates.
Psychedelics/Entheogens however swim loves & they work very well for him!

This also sounds like it would work well, unfortunately swim doesn't have access to codeine/dihydrocodeine Its ironic how the worst drugs like heroin are the easiest for swim to obtain, & drugs that could actually be helpful in situations like this are really hard to come by....

Thanks rOm, another member pm'ed me about the eboka site also it is very helpful, I checked it out lots of great info there on this for swim.

I have heard this, though its yet another substance swim will likely not be able to obtain unfortunately.

*oops double post
deleted.

I have never even heard of MXE? I'll look it up. DXM is definitely worth a shot, swim has never used it for this purpose but easily accessible for him. So it looks like DXM & Kratom are the best or at least most realistic to obtain for swim at this point. He has also heard that Loperamide at high doses is effective as well, there is an iv heroin user on ophiophile that had kicked using nothing but Loperamide & swears by it. Thanks for all the responses everyone, its most appreaciated!

One other thing.....anyone have any experience with Kambo/sapo(tree frog venom)or the dermorphin and deltorphin derived from it? I saw another thread here @ the Nexus, I read up, saw this & found it very interesting:

"dermorphin and deltorphin peptides that would act similarly to morphine in terms of pain reduction, but which, while 33 and 17 times as strong as pharmaceutical morphine, would not be habit forming because they are bioactive. Your body would simply eliminate what it didn’t need."

I've read that there is promise for opiate addiction treatment with Kambo/demorphin/deltorphin? And from reading up on Kambo, it seems to have many other great health benefits aside from that as well. I've always been interested in reptiles/amphibians and I've seen this frog(Giant Waxy Monkey Tree Frog Phyllomedusa bicolor)for sale at plenty of reptile expos/shops over the years, I never would have guessed this about it! It is a very cool looking frog.

Sometimes talking to your Doctor about it and asking prescription of codeine instead of subuxone or other substitute is manageable.

This Kambo hold a lot I believe also.
Thought we do'nt really know its safety in case of opiates withdrawal or user...

In any case, one must be extremely careful about health and safety issues, regarding drugs interactions or body pressure.

Unfortunately swim doesn't have a doctor anymore, & can't afford insurance. His suboxone doctor closed his practice & he gave swim a suboxone script with a few refills and that was the end of it. Though this had nothing to do with swim's choice to get off suboxone.

[/quote]
This Kambo hold a lot I believe also.
Thought we do'nt really know its safety in case of opiates withdrawal or user...

In any case, one must be extremely careful about health and safety issues, regarding drugs interactions or body pressure.[/quote]


Well maybe in time something will come of it, & at the very least I hope any medical value of the frog will help protect it & possibly its native habitat as well.

DXM assisted me through the worst of some nasty ope/benzo withdrawals. Keep in mind I was taking this in large amounts to trip, and quite often for a while, however, low doses (60mg+) for me also significantly helped reduce opiate withdrawal symptoms.