member for the trees
  
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 27-May-2024
|
Acacia podalyriifolia (Queensland Silver Wattle) is a common ornamental worldwide, and native to Australia. ..it has recently come to my attention that this plant has yielded the highest amounts of DMT yet found in an aussie acacia. 0.5-2.0% DMT, trace phenethylamine (Chemotaxonomie der Pflanzen By Robert Hegnauer 1994), A.podalyriifolia image (wikipedia) any field reports..?
|
|
|
|
|
Dreamoar
Posts: 4711 Joined: 10-Sep-2009 Last visit: 21-Nov-2024 Location: Rocky mountain high
|
I was under the impression that this tree contained no dmt? do you have a reference for the it being the highest DMT yielding plant yet found in AU? I found this at the corroboree here: http://www.shaman-austra...index.php?showtopic=3320Day Tripper wrote:Hey Guy! I realize this is an old post, but I kept finding it when I was researching this misleading Acacia species. The wiki is completely wrong about this tree containing DMT. Acacia Podalyriifolia contains NO DMT. I have 2 trees right out in front of my house and 3 more down the road in which I have sampled bark and leaves and done both an acid/base extract with HCL/NaOH and a dry extract with white vinegar/CaOH on all 5 samples and nothing comes out. I have used both these extraction methods successfully with Acacia Confusa and MHRB, so I know they work. The last extraction I stripped the poor trees inner bark by about 3 cm for nearly 500 grams... Still nothing.
So to save resources, trees, and peoples time... I am trying to find all the Acacia Podalyriifolia posts online and put and end to this hopeful but misleading idea that it contains up to 2% DMT. Sorry guys. Glad to have some one refute me though and prove me wrong because I'd kiss them! But if you do please provide details as to how you did the extracts... don't just say "I got some".
Oh, and I know for a fact they are the Acacia Podalyriifolia species because it identically matches descriptions and started to flower 2 weeks ago... exactly when it is suppose to with exact matching flowers... which triggered me to give it one last final attempt. I've also posted pictures in the NExus and it was confirmed by other members.
Thanks everyone!
~Jez
|
|
|
member for the trees
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 27-May-2024
|
..thanks dreamer042..i do recall that particular negative report, but without a few more findings it's still an open question, to me. e.g. longifolia (3 or 4 positive findings/ 6-8 negative). i was told "don't bother with var. sophorae", which i now know to be premature advice. also that forum was 2005 with no discussion since. from the same forum: Quote:I remember someone telling me that this species contained NMT the mono-methylated compound which is[sic.] inactive.
TLC did show a spot that may well have been this compound while DMT was not detected.
any more no, yes or maybe reports? 1 or 2 more web references report tryptamine in the (?) leaves. i've simply had a re-agent postive on one sample, so i don't think there's 'nothing' in there 'ever'...
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 45 Joined: 19-May-2011 Last visit: 12-Oct-2016 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
|
I've heard nothing on this species one way or the other, so I can't constructively contribute here except to say wouldn't it be wonderful if there was a Queensland native species that held this quantity of actives  As far as I'm aware one has to travel further south to be confident of finding an active Acacia species (hopefully I'm wrong....). Best of luck finding a conclusion, I'll be keen to hear it!
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1104 Joined: 17-May-2009 Last visit: 18-Jul-2023
|
I also read A.Podalyriifolia had that insanely high DMT content. It was on Wikipedia and I believe their source is Trout's notes.
But checking the source-link at the bottom of the wiki-page brought me to a wierd Trout's notes-website that looked very unprofessional and hectic.
Couldn't find more about Acacia Podalyriifolia. I've been quite bent on obtaining and growing A.Podalyriifolia, but now I'm not so sure.
|
|
|
member for the trees
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 27-May-2024
|
Quote:(Chemotaxonomie der Pflanzen By Robert Hegnauer 1994) Springer this is the only quoted source, which i don't have myself. so if anyone does can you please double check. however, i have taken notes from this reference when i had access a while ago, and Hegnauer's findings on other acacias correlate strongly with others tests.. a friend of mine ('M'  did silico-tungusic acid reagent tests on a sample of leaf and got a DMT colour spot (referenced to P. viridis), no measurement of % on this occasion. [Trout's Notes (i believe) have to be either subscribed to, or purchased in print form (my vrsn.). If site inactive try searches.] probably one for the dedicated researchers but, based on past experience, i'd say not enough tests in enough different regions(& seasons) have been done to reach a conclusion yet. beautiful tree to grow, anyway... 
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 163 Joined: 18-Jul-2011 Last visit: 02-Apr-2024
|
The claim of DMT in this species is not supported by anything in Trout's Notes nor in Chemotaxonomie der Pflanzen. Who knows where that one came from!
|
|
|
member for the trees
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 27-May-2024
|
..it's good to start pinning this information down, & this is certainly an interesting rumour..
i know that a number of acacias have been scientifically studied but not published (A.longifolia var.sophorae for example), but i can't access/make public this source right now..
..if someone sees an acacia and has a strong intuitive impulse they should try extracting it..only a very small number of formal tests have been done compared to what's out there...
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1453 Joined: 05-Apr-2009 Last visit: 02-Feb-2014 Location: hypospace
|
In KTrouts book Some Simple Tryptamines the only entry for this species is under tryptamine.
The data reads:
Major alkaloid in stem and leaf, White 1951
Stem and leaf 0.29% total alkaloids, unripe seedpods 0.11% White 1957
From leaves. Balandrin et al 1978
Leaf and also stem bark negative for alkaloids by Smolenski et al 1973
So according to Trouts notes this species contains only tryptamine and doesn't always test positive for alkaloids.
The citations do not mention harvest time and it is known that alkaloid contents of acacia fluctuate, they are not the same year round, late fall and early winter seem to be times where alkaloids tend to be higher, sometimes plants that can have a decent alkaloid content for part of the year have none at other times, so try to consider that a lot of data is not conclusive.
|
|
|
member for the trees
Posts: 4003 Joined: 28-Jun-2011 Last visit: 27-May-2024
|
..you're great with info. AlbertKLloyd !
..at least two species tested by White et al and said to contain Tryptamine have turned out to contain DMT..eg A. acuminata & A. longifolia..
does wira or anyone have the original paper..i want to see what kind of methodology could find tryptamine instead of dmt, or if infact the claim is "tryptamines", in the general sense..
1951 is not exactly the age of computer-assisted GCMS...
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 163 Joined: 18-Jul-2011 Last visit: 02-Apr-2024
|
I have the White papers, not the others. I don't have the chem-savvy to know exactly which bits of information will interest you (regards to your question), they are fairly detailed, but I'll be seeing you soon nen888, and will bring you some photocopies or scans 
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 463 Joined: 21-Dec-2013 Last visit: 28-Dec-2019
|
nen888 wrote:Acacia podalyriifolia (Queensland Silver Wattle) is a common ornamental worldwide, and native to Australia. ..it has recently come to my attention that this plant has yielded the highest amounts of DMT yet found in an aussie acacia. 0.5-2.0% DMT, trace phenethylamine (Chemotaxonomie der Pflanzen By Robert Hegnauer 1994), A.podalyriifolia image (wikipedia) any field reports..? --Shadow attached the following image(s):  picture-podalyriifolia.JPG (3,875kb) downloaded 210 time(s).Throughout recorded time and long before, trees have stood as sentinels, wise yet silent, patiently accumulating their rings while the storms of history have raged around them --The living wisdom of trees, Fred Hageneder
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 27 Joined: 28-Jan-2013 Last visit: 06-Apr-2023
|
i have performed ATB (with and without post defat) extractions with acacia podalyriifolia, hcl and phos, 3 different trees (all mature) at different times of the year, summer, winter and autumn, leaves, bark and root bark... nothing, brown waxy gew/crumb that is definitely not active, harsh to test, although the extract from the leaves had that smell when burnt, maybe contains very small amounts, certainly not +2%... even tried stb on the leaves... I thought i may have mis identified the acacia so i asked a reliable character who knew his botany, id was confirmed, queensland silver wattle, first test was found at Mt Morgan, 2nd Chinchilla, 3rd Toowoomba... all NUDDA.
The original findings may have been contaminated or simply, mis identified, maybe there is a look alike somewhere...
|
|
|
Boundary condition
Posts: 8617 Joined: 30-Aug-2008 Last visit: 07-Nov-2024 Location: square root of minus one
|
I would suggest changing the title of this thread to avoid wasting anyone else's time. “There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work." ― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
|