I think this is one of those things that really shouldn't even be discussed in terms of legislation.

No woman, ever, WANTS to find herself in that situation. A very significant number of women develop psychological problems (though not always immediately), related to the trauma... because... it is a trauma. No way around that one, it is a trauma, it is a DEATH of something attached to someone. The death of a loved one is terrible enough when it's someone not attached to your own body. Try to imagine...

I think, if you ever know anyone in that situation, you should pray hard for them and offer whatever kind of support you can as family, friend, etc. Even if you completely disagree... chances are most women feel horribly conflicted.

I've known women whose parents forced them to do it.

I've known women who have done it for survival, e.g. no other options for financial support.

Rape would be horrible enough on its own.

I personally could not carry a child to term, only to give it up for adoption right after birth. Could you?

They say not to judge a person until you've walked a mile in his shoes... These are probably some of the toughest steps to walk.

Society says, "Don't worry, you always have a choice." Well, what is that choice? To commit murder inside your own body? Is that the best choice women are given? The structure of our world doesn't offer much, let alone truly necessary support, to raise every child conceived. It is tragic.

Even a symbolic mourning process is far more important than most people would even think. I had a girlfriend who had "I remember" tattooed to her hip.

One in three children are aborted.

I just urge everyone, whenever this subject does arise, to not react to one's logical mind, but to act out of the heart and offer a hand or a hug. It doesn't matter what it is/when it is/when it becomes/whatever. It is sad. Period. Have respect, regardless of technicality. It is very deep sadness, sadness deep inside the body attached to the most ecstatic thing, the source of life.

Not trying to fight with you, I SWEAR!

BUT, there's no evidence of a DMT surge in the brain at day xx. Strassman points out this flaw in a great interview on Future Primitive.

As for when? I say up it's up to the woman.

I'm going to listen to the interview, thanks.

after reading minxx's post I really do think this is something the mother has to come to terms with herself and I doubt there are any that do it out of malevolence or hate for life. However there is a moment when it becomes not a womans rights issue but a childs rights issue, what if the woman were to hit the baby with a hammer as it was coming out of the womb... this would obviously be criminal...

I had no idea it was 1 in 3 children, thats disturbing .

As for a girls parents forcing her into it that should defiantly be a crime, that makes me sick

I know for third trimester abortions, you have to go into labor and basically deliver anyway, and I don't think there are any places in North America that would do it without some kind of life-threatening complication.

Scary to even think about.

-EASYRIDER IS CORRECT!....Untill you are a woman in the position of bringing a deformed extremely ill baby into the world , you CANNOT understand what it means. It is a very deep and personal ssubject, and there is a lot more to this than meets the eye. Ray of light did nothing wrong bringing this subject up, but "one" certain poster was certainly out of order for their response.

- Personally, leave others decide their own lives, live and let live. that's what i say. As long as it doesn't affect you, let them deal with their own guilty feelings. Only let this concern you when it happens to YOU....

This is DEFINITELY one of those threads from which ONLY discord can arise. It serves no purpose in being here. If a member is actually CONFRONTING the issue, then of course it might be useful to offer advice/support to someone who asked. Otherwise...it's just a topic to argue over and NOTHING ELSE.

I understand your point swimfriensd, but the Nexus is a mind opening place. We talk about governments also, and you could say the same there. Perhaps this is a good thread that allows some posters to demonstrate if they are truly articulate and reasonable posters, or simply people that can't seem to reply without arguing. Perhaps this thread is very good for that.

I wasn't aware there was a call for test threads to expose arguers and assess articulation. AGAIN I'm not receiving those memos!

My heart really does go out to the women that go through this. My girlfriend always wanted to adopt because there are so many unwanted children out there. At first I was against the idea as I wanted to have a child of my own ( theres the ego creeping in ) now I actually agree with my girlfriend. So many children out there that need to be loved, I think that all we can really do is try to help ... Love is the answer, not judging people for what they do.

If we see a problem in the world or something that we see as unjust , lets try to help the situation by doing whatever we can as an individual be it offer counsel to someone going through a hard time or adopt a child that has no one.

If theres one thing dmt has taught me its that we are all one. time to let go of the judging.

-MY POINT, SWIMFRIEND???, yes, my point is this. This is an ok subject to discusss in a rational manner, like all other discusssions. Those that do not like this subject in the first place should ignore this thread and go on another one, simple as that. Nobody started this thread and stated " start another heated nasty argument now" did they??

*pokes the people at the centerstage to see if we can get some more bloody fights for entertainment

*eats popcorn



I love you guys

I really got a lot from this thread, I'm glad I made it. what other site can you mention something like this and end up laughing out loud. thanks endlessness DMT NEXUS FTW~

If you are a guy... you can always suggest an abortion, but if she doesnt want to, then you have to take responsability in raising the kid.
And if you want the kid and she wants to abort, you have to deal with that.

If you are a girl... its your choice. Both are acceptable.

I believe you are referring to Day 48 when the pineal glad migrates from the roof of the mouth to the center of the brain.

I have no issues with this subject but I do find it ironic that in certain states if you kill a pregnant woman you can be charged with DOUBLE HOMICIDE, but a doctor can tear it out (sometimes still alive) and cut it up, toss in the medical waste bin, and collect a paycheck.

Ultimately the fact that somebody other than you decides to have an abortion should make it none of your concern. People have to start to learn to mind their own business. Same thing with gay marriage (or smoking spice for that matter... ). If it doesn't impact your life (which it doesn't), then leave the people alone and stop playing high and mighty. If it truly is egregious to have an abortion, then I'm sure that God or karma or whatever will take care of the situation, but you can butt out. If you wanna get heated about something, devote your awareness to something that actually affects your life like environment issues or dare I say politics (but not abortion politics )

What point is a human being a human being? if a woman kills a 2 year old child its criminal and so it should be. If she kills a baby 5 minutes after birth its criminal... but 5 minutes before birth is legal in our current system. As it sits right now with me I don't believe a baby is any less a baby 5 minutes before birth as opposed to 5 minutes after. The line has to be drawn somewhere, for me that somewhere is the third trimester.

I've always been a proponent of the 900-week abortion. Abortion as a viable option up till college would fix so many problems in education, health care, Social Security, etc.

I agree with you 100%!

lol

It seems to me it shouldn't be a matter of legislation... after all, it would be another law dictating what a person can or cannot do with their own body, much like those against psychedelics. It is far too personal and important a matter to be acted upon by the state.