Oh man, I was just about to mention 'Coatl. What a strange character he/she was/is. I don't go on any other forums but I guess he's still flaming people and being militant about his love of natural entheogens. I missed the whole ron debacle. As far as I was concerned Ron was the go to guy, then I came back and he's persona non grata. I attempted to read the thread but gave up. Life's too short frankly.

I actually tend toward agreeing with you. But the fact is that many members strongly desire a certain feeling and atmosphere, and I can understand that. People don't want to be ruffled. Perhaps they're feeling especially sensitive from recent experiences--or they're a bit anxious about experiences they plan for the near future--and don't look forward to negativity inflicted upon them as soon as they step through the door of the Nexus.

For people who feel a lot of sensitivity, it would be good to keep a positive, constructive, and warm atmosphere. That could most easily be achieved by AVOIDING areas of discussion that invite disputation, and instead, sticking strictly to areas that people EXPECT from the Nexus.

...of course, the problem with wholly positive, constructive, and warm atmospheres is that they are also sometimes BORING, and sometimes some of us might come here looking for RELIEF from boredom...So, in reaction to that, people come up with ideas for subfora to generate "a little buzz..."

A lot of the time I'll read a thread and something will catch my attention. I'll write up a reply, then I'll sit and read over it again. Asking myself, "Where will this response direct the conversation?" "How will others take what I'm about to say?" etc.

This has stopped me from entering into arguments and kept me in a more positive state of mind. Even just writing it out and not posting it sometimes helps. I realize that I am imperfect, we all are, and that some things just don't need to be said.

"If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." My grandmother loved to tell me that as a child. Perhaps I don't complain as much as I should in some situations, but this old adage has kept me out of a lot of trouble.

I learned the hard way to stay out of the Science section

you can hang out in the science forum, just don't post pseudoscience.
metaphysical musings have no place in Science, that's philosophical/spiritual discussion.

evidence is what separates pure science from so-called "fringe science".
(and it goes without saying...what's considered fringe science today may be mainstream science tomorrow)

FUCK YOU ALL!!!!






jk

I'll call it as I see it. I see two types of people on this forum consistently clash. left brain and right brain people. In the case of myself and a1pha for example, he cant comprehend how I can have an opinion about something based on 'feeling' instead of a 400 page scientific journal and I cant comprehend him not being able to make a decision on something without 'seeing the proof' .

These two camps cant understand each other and never will , no amount of civil discussion is ever going to change that. That being said If I have an opinion on something its my opinion, I can give a reason why I have an opinion but in most cases this wont be enough of a reason for a hard core left brain thinker. I have to give a reason that satisfies them, not me and if I don't do that I'm labeled an ranting raving moron.

So, I'll continue to post my thoughts and certain people will continue to troll my threads challenging what I believe in,
that is fine by me, all in divine order. I suppose the drama can be amusing in a way.

I wish you all the best .

I dont agree that its about rational vs emotional people (and anyways this left vs right brain is not clear cut as people say, according to the brain sciences).

If someone respectfully challenges your opinion and demands evidence after you make some important unbacked claim, in a forum that has a scientific attitude since its beginnings, I dont see how that is 'trolling' your thread in any way. You cant expect people to just agree and nod along. In fact, it specifically says so in the attitude page: "Discussion on the nexus should always be based on reliable sources. Fear-mongering and baseless excessive speculation has no place in the Nexus. "

(Not necessarily saying your posts are fear mongering, to be honest I dont remember any particular example, but just saying in general we are scientific and require reliable information, and if its speculation, then that it isnt excessive, and that it is clearly stated as so instead of passed as fact)

The problem would be if it was done in a disrespectful way, which is independent of who is scientific or not, its rather something related to attitude.

[quote=RayOfLight]I'll call it as I see it. I see two types of people on this forum consistently clash. left brain and right brain people. In the case of myself and a1pha for example, he cant comprehend how I can have an opinion about something based on 'feeling' instead of a 400 page scientific journal and I cant comprehend him not being able to make a decision on something without 'seeing the proof'

-Ray of light, i can understand your sentiments exactly, and at the same time can see the points from the other party. However i think that the " other party" tries a bit to hard to be over analytical and scientific, and i think that in certain discussions that this is not what the Nexus is about.

-I believe that the Nexus is meant to be more about one being more in tune with ones higher self. That means reasonable discussions, but always being more favorable to a simple natural lifestyle ,which is not what governments are about i'm afraid. Still, everyone is allowed to state their points, and my points are my own.

On page 1 SWIMfriend stated something along the lines that the really important things happen when one is alone, in one's head. I am currently participating in meetings with people who believe rather the opposite- that it is communication that is truly important. On one hand communication could be seen as a means for contact, and the better we are it, the more contact (metaphysically speaking) we will have. On the other hand communication to them is means to reveal and explore the nature of consciousness transpersonally, intersubjectively, beyond the individual self-centered self.

Personally I wouldn't say one thing is more important than the other; both introspection and the exploration of intersubjective dynamics and harmonizations that can occur therein are interesting to explore and worthwhile to explore in my opinion. According to Ken Wilber they are both equal aspects of our reality and represent two of his four quadrants (the left side if I am not mistaken).

In any case I wanted to say that I believe discussions are valuable for the sake of discussions just for the exploration of intersubjectivity, in order to explore and create shared values and come to mutual understandings. Of course not all threads/discussions are progressive, they often become circular and limited by the fact that people are not interested in developing their ideas even hypothetically for the sake of communication, but have some other agenda.

I find that most of the subfora here are very much related to entheogenic use - science, spirituality, philosophy, sustainability, politics etc - they are all in some way linked to our reality of existence, which by expanding and exploring our consciousness we continually view from different angles and enter into different forms of interactions with. I see the nexus as a kind of emerging culture of sorts (sub-culture?) - all these different topics allow us to join into a field of mutual awareness and interact with one another. Eliminating these topics would result in the collapse of this field and its potential to connect us.

Perhaps this means nothing to some, but for me it is this field in which we connect and interact that is so interesting, and it is because of this that I am a member of the forum. The information I could have easily gotten without joining...

As for respectfulness and what to do if discussions degrade into name calling or pointless unwillingness to engage in meaningful exchange... try to moderate it, if it doesn't work don't feed it any more (and perhaps explain why no one else should, in a respectful manner which will not offend anyone), or finally close the thread.

cheers
Enoon

Whilst i haven't yet seen the Nexus hit "9-11" times yet, there's no harm in choosing to have a relaxing day to re-calbrate ones anger thermostat and start again from "ground zero" ??

-Excuse me whilst i iron my ruffled ego..

I don't think I agree with you here endless. I've seen far to many spiritual vs materialism threads at the Nexus. I've seen hard core materialists demand evidence...ok demand was a strong word. I've also seen the more spiritually inclined people brush away hard science because it doesn't jive with their views? Who's right? Who knows?

I agree with Ray's analysis. There are largely to types of people on the Nexus. The scientifically inclined and the entheogenic/spiritual. HOwever it's a sliding scale as many like me fall in the middle. I'm a scientist that tries to make sure any spiritual theories I currently hold jive with current science...but I don't hold this rule holy. My views can freely change and morph...just like science! Of course some thinks will never jive. White light experience anyone?

I will say this to all those defending the science of today as though it is the only rational thought...and I'll say it as a scientist. What you hold dear enough today may very well change by tomorrow. Go grab a biology book from the 50's.... Don't pretend that you know things that you don't. The beauty of science is that it challenges and morphs and grows...or it should. When I see materialist claiming that spiritual views are wrong at first I chuckle because I realize the materialist hasn't accounted for the fact that they don't actually have anything more concrete than an opinion...same as the spiritualist. However when the threads continue I get aggravated because it turns into an US vs THEM debate almost every time. It's silly. It's really silly when you consider that neither side has little more than an opinion.

Even when it comes to science. Most of us just read the journal articles...no actually a few of us scientists actually read the journal articles, but most people get this information once a journalist has distilled it into something digestible for the average person. How many of us have actually worked as a particle physicist for example? Sure we can comment on their work, but it's mostly an opinion unless we can fully digest the math and rational behind their work. Even the peer review process requires you to list other researches that are working closely in your area to evaluate your work. Unless we can fully understand the work I say we hold an opinion that the work is true and our opinions are backed by the peer review process....better than an unbacked opinion I suppose.

I also agree with the materialists that sometimes the things that are said by spiritualists is well just down right silly. My question is why is there this need by the materialist to 'fix' the spiritualist? Is it so hard to just allow them to have their views? Remember none of us really have any inkling of what this all is. Look at the world around us? What they hell is this? Science has been awesome at ripping apart the fabric of reality, yet reality continues to escape and evade science. Whether it's debates about the laws of physics breaking down at black holes, or fundamental particles that jump in and out of existence so fast that no one can observe them, to theories of multiple bubble verses, etc. I just think a little humility by the hard core materialist camp is in order. Yes you have 400 years of rock solid science on your side, but you still don't have the answers to the fundamental questions. You also need to realize that science has changed many times in that 400 year period. It's completely conceivable that someday we will get a completely unified theory of everything...and it's also conceivable that we will have to throw out a lot of work because a new theory will come along that fits better. It happens all the time. We chemists used to think electrons orbited the nucleus of an atom like planets....this seems silly in light of current quantum knowledge today, but that view was good enough to make a lot of head way with chemical synthesis....yet it was dead wrong.

Now I'll easily concede that the science section should well pertain to science. Even I have stood up against pseudoscience in that sub forum.

Anyway I've really rambled here and I haven't even had a coffee yet!

I think the right answer is still to just be mindful of respectfulness. No matter where you sit on the spiritual vs material scale a little humility goes a long way to foster intelligent discussion....Oh and it's ok to be neither right or wrong on a topic. It is ok to just let things lie as they are and walk away... <-- Advise I need to remember!

Peace

it's quite funny actually, there's always one thing that causes problems between me and my mate, and that's his idea that if some kinda phenomena can't be measured or explained scientifically, then it must be a load of crap. Needless to say i don't bother trying to explain my interest in the psychadelic mind or Terence mcKenna to him.

-Such being the case, i do find it strange for a Nexian to be asking for "evidence"

-It almost seems out of context of being a "Nexian", and kinda shows some sort of lack of insight/understanding in the grande scheme of things. AND ISN'T THAT WHAT THE NEXUS IS REALLY ABOUT ?

I understand the temptation to classify people. But doing so ALWAYS ends up being divisive--and usually, is in fact something not much different from bigotry.

If "spirituality" and "rationality" can't find common ground then NEITHER is worth much. If you haven't seen it, I'd love to hear what people think of youtube user's Philhellene's video Science Saved My Soul, in its unification of the numinous and the rational.

Those who can't enter REALITY from both the "spiritual" and "rational" directions need to expand their perspectives...

perhaps what we all need is one big silly joint to be passed around

Regardless of contents of thread, politics, history, etc. I'd love to see an evolution towards more general tolerance. An understanding that if a person does not embrace the majority opinion that they are not inherently evil or looking for a fight. An understanding that even within the entheogen and DMT communities there is tremendous diversity of opinion. A newer, higher level of respect for all. I'd like to see Moderators and more Senior members lead the way.

Hell, I'd like to see more - not just an understanding but a welcoming and embracing of that.

I am a silly dreamer. Why is this so? I'm not sure why my dream cannot come true no matter what our intentions, no matter how hard we try. It's almost like there's an entropy factor in human relations that on the small and large scales causes us to repeat over and over various cycles of growth and decay/toxicity. Sometimes there is gradual overall progress. I can definately continue to hope for at least that much. Even here at Nexus.

See, it seems to me that asking for evidence in the areas that evidence is applicable is exactly what the Nexus has been about, since before I joined.

I agree with endlessness and think that RayofLight's claim is ridiculous. Snozzleberry, as an example, clearly has a deep appreciation for the arts, which requires rich-mode engagement (my preferred term for "right brain" ), even though he is one of the people involved in many of the requests for evidence earlier.

A problem for mature discussions arises when people attempting to justify claims made by their feelings, in areas that are actually factually determined. In the Ron Paul discussion, for example, there are Constitutionally established limitations on the Executive Branch. We can look at them and see that the President does not, in fact, have the power to carry out many of the proposals that Ron Paul has made.

The topic of chakras frequently results in these disputes as well, but not always. Perhaps people don't care to read my posts (certainly not always the case), yet I have never had an experience where I used chakras as a description challenged. On the other hand, when a poster attempts to reify their experience of chakras, or assert their belief in chakras as a fact, of course it brings out the warhorses.

It seems very odd to me that any Nexians would have so little difficulty discriminating between their subjective experience and objective truth claims, and not make the very simple shifts in communication to resolve the issue. <-- My own silly generalization of the Nexus

I don't think it's about majority/minority opinion on any issue -- I think it's about supporting that issues with facts and reason, regardless of which side you're on...

Brothers and sisters. I smell a nexus revolution!!..