Mind defending the statements with some evidence or facts? Esp. If you say things like "surely you know..."

Agreed...I find statements like these to be somewhat regressive as they make people roll their eyes and think CT. There's plenty of evidence to support factual claims in the same vein as the sentiment you've articulated (I'd posit that some of my posts contain some). Instead of regurgitating things you hear on youtube, why not apply a bit of critical thought and present actual factual evidence instead of overbroad abstract concepts? Imo, that contributes much more to the discussion.

Well, sorry guys if i offended you, but i saw on U tube a Video explaining that the United States is a corporation, and not a country. Silly me, if this is in fact incorrect. Silly me if your vote actually does count. but then again i think everyone in British politics is just as bad as each other. And i think this the same for the States. just my views.

-To be honest i believe the version of the U TUBE video,proof, or no proof- because the basic message from the statement is that no matter how much the public agonise with politics, it's still more of the same old lies and deceptions. And if that isn't correct, then please explain why the President of the United States, the highest of the highest, who should be honest and truthful, is the biggest liar of the lot??

- Sorry guys, i'm sticking to my guns on this. I might be wrong about the corporation and the police job actually being to protect the corporation-not the general peoples, but i'm not wrong about the American government and Politics, because it's the same in England and the rest or the world- Lies,false hopes, Lies,False hopes, LIES......
etc....need i go on...?


-

What are you talking about? This reads as vague/abstract rants against the system. I'm sorry, but personally I find such rants to be a complete and utter waste as they don't accomplish anything, nor do they pinpoint the problems and structures that propagate them within society. Your post provides absolutely nothing in the realm of concrete information; this is what bothers me. "stick to your guns" all you want, it doesn't actually make a coherent argument. If you're not going to provide real world examples I see no merit in "raging against the machine"...rants against abstract systems of power are pointless.

If you're going to attack the system, why not actually attack the system? Why not point out the incestuous relationships between private industry/government regulators? Why not point out the buddy-system of lobbyists/politicians? Why not discuss the flaws of fractional reserve banking or political assassinations or the IMF/World Bank policies? There are so many concrete and legit discussions that we could have that I simply see no reason to engage in the type of abstraction your posts present.

You present the president as the biggest liar (without citing any evidence); I would posit that that is not correct (there are many more-significant liars in his cabinet, and that's just in the political realm; if we enter into the business realm, there are significantly bigger liars). You claim that you will think what a video tells you rather than engage in critical thought; I find that lamentable. Calling the US a corporation is a misrepresentation...the US merely provides an arena in which and through which corporations can flex their muscle. As to "proving you wrong"...you've stated no facts, no actual points of information...so what is there to prove wrong? Your rhetoric is just as bad as politicians; it presents a bunch of buzz words with no real substance.

^ This.

mmm, oh well, we can't all agree i suppose. Just my way of expressing my complete lack of faith in politicians, and presidents...

edit:- Shnozzle, if you re read your post you'll realise you are your own hippocrit. If you feel my posting to be worthless and not worthy of a response, why then bother ??...As for my posting being lamentable on the basis of supposed regurgurtation of u tube vids, bear in mind that it's my final analysis that you are reading. Don't blame it on U TUBE. We all have our own points to make, but none of us are experts...No matter how much we study into Politics, what we know, and what they REALLY know are two completely different things.

How exactly am I a hypocrite?

I responded to your post in an attempt to maintain the integrity of this thread.

Additionally, you yourself stated you didn't care if the vid was true or not, that you needed no proof because it agreed with your sentiments...that's exactly the type of stuff that goes on in the political/economic systems you are trashing so abstractly.

This seems to be more the definition of hypocrite I'm familiar with - Bagging on a nation and their system because of lies and deceit, only to use lies and deceit to support your claim.

- EXACTLY!!, The Political/ economic system is utter bullshit, YES, that is what i'm saying. 10 OUT OF 10 for that deduction.

- It's not CT stuff, there doesn't have to be any, the States cares more about it's arms, and the wars it starts, than for it's own people. Everyone knows that...

ummmm what? Your posts are incredibly incoherent and the tone seems rather sarcastic. Each of your posts in this thread has taken the thread one step farther away from the legitimate discussion/debate that was going on prior to your posts.

You still haven't explained why you called me a hypocrite...if you're going to make accusations like that, you'd better be able to back them up. The incredibly simple point both a1pha and I were trying to make is that if you are going to engage in these kinds of conversations, you should cite concrete evidence so that we can engage in constructive discussion. Posting vague rants at abstractions is of no merit to anyone.

If you're not going to add to the discussion, please refrain from posting in this thread...this is not censorship as censorship is defined as "the suppression of speech or other public communication" and you are completely failing to communicate. If you'd like to make coherent, mature posts, by all means, feel free to do so.

Ahh dunno, schnozz.... i called you a hippocrit because - well if you re read your posts like i mentioned, you'd know. I'm not gonna bother with this thread anymore because you need " evidence " when it's all around... looks like you just like to flex your arguing muscle to me.

- Reading this thread i've seen lots of posters giving good views and you seem to simply be against them. I agree that i may be lacking in evidence, etc...but mine are general views based on what is reported in the news,etc...and good enough for this thread anyway. Are you a politician?..if not, then your points are in no way superior to mine , and my points are justly worthy of this thread, just like everyone elses..

Do you really believe politicians are the only ones who grasp politics? Hell, most of them are either clueless or benefactors of the system or both. No, I'm not a politician, but I do hold a degree in Political Science from one of the top US State Universities. This doesn't make my points better than yours, it's merely a piece of my background. Honestly, I would say my own personal research outside of any institution has provided infinitely more insight onto the political system than any class or institutional experience I've had. I never claimed my posts were better than yours; my posts contain information that can be verified or fact-checked, your posts contain the same sort of meaningless rhetoric you were harping on politicians for engaging in. Do you see the contradiction?

Again you make a slew of accusations and insinuations (aimed at me) without providing any evidence. I would ask you again...if you're going to engage in such personal attacks, please cite your claims. I have no problem acknowledging when I am wrong or incorrect (I believe I did so at least once earlier in this thread). I will ask you again, how am I a hypocrite? How am I "simply against" other posts? a1pha took issue with your post before I did, so I would posit that at least one individual aside from me feels that your posts are lacking in substantive material.

As far as merely arguing for the sake of arguing, that's ridiculous. Every time I have disagreed or contradicted someone I have provided legitimate evidence to support my claims. I engage in these discussions and debates to challenge and enhance my own views and ideas...if they can't hold up, so much the better as it means I can develop newer, potentially improved thoughts for engaging the world around me.

OK, this is my final reply on this tiresome argument. I am not into personally attacking anybody, and was simply responding to you, shnozzelberry in the same tone that i percieve that you give out. Look back, and you will see that some posters have stated some reasonable , fair points of view- but somehow you can't simply just let it be, you have to argue it to death and demand valid evidence because it's "really been bothering you lately".

-I understand that Politics are one of your favorite subjects, so obviously me coming along with some points of views of my own based on my general "feelings" of politics overall and it's vibes - do not mix well with your facts requirement basis.

-However, i like too think that a liberated mind sometimes just "knows" things, based on what general vibes are going- news, and media related, and that this is generally enough. Once again i was making general comments on the scenarios of politics and not trying to take the matter too seriously, because i'm more interested in how the countries actually are, etc-rather than the arguing political parties, and all their junk.

-I called you a hippocrit because you basically said my posts were a waste of time , yet you still bothered to reply to them. I agree i was wrong to use this word , so i apologise.

-Have a nice day.

Christian, I'm not taking sides here - but I think you need to take a deep breath and re-read what Snozzleberry has written. From an outside perspective here, he has been more than reasonable explaining his points to you, and you dodge each one of them.

Think about it - You (SB) takes the time to fully answer a posters question, intelligently, then bring up counter-arguments or flaws in that post. This isn't attacking you, this is in line with a proper debate and discussion.

He does this, then you respond with emotion while not addressing a single valid point he's made.

Sorry, but I think you owe it to Snozzleberry to start from the beginning, think about your stance on the issue (how much you know or don't know), then give this another shot...

Well, i've already stated what i wanted to state, and do not wish to start a long winded argument based on factual evidence and the like. I believe that past wars, and indeed current wars in the Middle East, the failing war on drugs, the ridiculous amounts of money the US spends on weapons- of which it then sells to countries that it ends up fighting, are all good examples of just how CRAP the way our supposed system is. Add to that the pathetic paranoia that is being spread by governments, and it's enough to scare the general population into really thinking that they are better off in their own country. That is of course UTTER BOLLOCKS!!...I spent 10 years backpacking all over ASIA and SOUTH AMERICA, and never met nicer, relaxed peoples.

- Believe all you like in your political systems, i say it's a load of utter tripe. Perhaps lose weight fatties and go do some travelling has got better potential to do some good than the "war on drugs, or war in the middle east!"


- Now please excuse me, i've got some serious laughing to do ....

( and i did apologise where applicable.)

http://reason.com/blog/2...-frank-and-ron-paul-will


Please research Ron paul, Vote for reason, sanity and freedom .

If only he wasn't a republican, I could vote for him, but who knows, maybe I would. I though Obama was going to be a progressive leader, and he has turned out to be to the right of center.
Ron Paul has some right wing philosophies, but if it comes between Obama (who has kept waging wars in the mid-east and the war on drugs,) I would vote for Ron Paul for sure.

Choosing one side or another is the worst decision you could possibly make.

No absolutes.

http://www.youtube.com/w...r2Ko&feature=related


This just brings a tear to my eye, what a true leader, a true gentleman. I really hope some of you out there see this thread and learn about this message.