Hello all, I recently returned to spice after a long break, and found that it is still too fast an experience to digest, yet I do not have the time for an all day aya journey or such...I have a peganum harmala 3x extract, and wonder what I could expect if I dosed with say 1 g of 3x harmala (3g seeds) and then vaporised say 30mg of dmt? How much different would it be than dosing without, and I don't just mean whether it lasts longer, but how do the harmalas mix with vaporized spice? Thanks guys!

If you take 3g equivalent of Rue, you're still going to be laid out as long as if you took the spice orally.

Vaporized spice and oral harmalas goes awesome, though.

So what, we're saying about 4 hours? And how "laid-out" are we talkin? lol...So basically it would be like a pharmauasca type deal? How would the sensations/visions differ?

I usually do my own research, but for some reason this method of administration seems to evade me online...can't find barely anything on harmala dosing then vaping spice...

and damn dude, I wish I would've thought of all these questions in one post...if I were to take less harmala, would this diminish the experience, and as a first timer in this method, what can I expect? (knowing i can't expect anything, but u know)

I always take sublingual harmalas about 20-30 minutes (or more) before a journey. It doesn’t take much – about 15-20mg is just about right. This seems to slow down the journey a bit and make it more manageable. The comedown period is also lengthened somewhat.

In terms of subjective effects, I’d say this method is somewhere in between vaporized DMT by itself and oral harmalas followed by vaporized DMT. (Also, I never had any nausea with sublingual harmalas.)

how to make the harmalas sublingual? Sounds interesting...How exactly is the come-up/peak when pre-dosing with harmalas? I always seemed to get tossed around once I enter hyperspace, quickly and intensely...will the harmalas change any of this?? grazie!

Sorry, I was vague. 3g of rue is enough to feel substantial effects from the rue alone. Dizziness, tracers and drowsiness are all common effects at that dosage. SWIM would be experiencing dream-like visions at that dosage as well. Usually it lasts from 3-4 hours. That's all I meant by laid out, unable to operate as sober.

Adding spice, either vaped or orally will increase the intensity of effects, but not their duration. The primary vaped spice effects typically hang out for 15-20 minutes with oral harmalas, and about 45 minutes until completely gone.

3g of rue is a hefty dose for me as well, and would give me visions without the DMT. Sublingual is nice but I find oral harmalas to be my favorite route and the most benificial overall. When DMT is smoked with oral or sublingual harmalas the onset is like 3-5 times slower than normal for me, the peak is more detailed and longer so I can settle into it more and the afterglow is extended. Take it laying down in bed in the dark and it is significantly more dream like than just DMT alone, that is the harmala visions merging with the DMT visuals.

I would take 3g of rue alone one night before you try it with DMT. Rue and caapi both are facinating psychedelics on they're own and dont require DMT to produce some interesting experiences with lots of personal insight. Once you are comfortable there then add the DMT..it does not take much either..one hit that wont do much alone at times will flatten me if I have taken enough harmalas beforehand.

Sounds interesting, I've taken one gram of 3x harmala extract, and def felt the detachment and dream-like state, but have not had any visuals or visions from it, am I not taking enough or is my extract weak?

did you lay down in the dark? If you were ok with the dose than sure take more..doses effect people differently. Maybe you do need more only you can say. Also "3x" might not be 3x unless you made it yourself and know for sure. I dont trust these extracts myself so I dont buy them anymore. I bought some 3x rue once but now I just get whole seeds so I know for sure what I am taking.

Yeah, I'ma give the 3x extract one more go again today, and hopefully it works...I'm not good with mg dosages, so I guess I'm just gonna capsule up a gram of it, which should equal out to 3g of seeds, which would be roughly how many mgs?...I've never taken harmalas before bed though (makes much more sense), I've always taken them during the day (not very respectful to the rue, due to plenty of distractions). The two times I have tried them, it was to get a feel of them alone..I felt a bit dizzy, a bit heavy, a little sick to my stomach...I tried adding oral spice the second time, to which I puked up most of...ended up feeling bleh....so here I am, gonna eat the rue and vape some spice in my meditation hut in my backyard...Will ultimately be my first experience with the two together...shit, I'm feeling anxious!

I just journeyed with maoi...all I can say is WOW, DMT should not be done without maois..

Seriously, to anyone checking this topic out, I've now journeyed 3 times with harmalas and freebase now, and its the only way to go...plenty of integration time, much more depth, and an earthy feeling...it takes the "alien" out of "hyperspace"...Personally, I love it when I can go outside, walk around, and I'm still in trance mode...it allows me to interact with my environment much more than being laid out on the floor...lol...

^really? Most often DMT with oral harmalas knocks me on my ass harder than just changa. I much prefer smoking with a good dose of oral harmalas and even oral DMT, but I dont find it something that makes me want to walk around and look at things. Gets real weird an alien as well still, but also more human and earthy with the harmalas. Im basically stuck to the bed eyes closed when I do this. It is very powerful.

Yeah, for some reason freebase by itself produces an intense, un-able-to-move connection...It seems (for me anyways) that the harmalas seem to produce a sense of detatchment, and in that fact seems to not so much diminish the effects, but allowing me to experience them over a 45min-1 hour duration, and I figured there should be only one reason *I* increase the duration, and that would be to explore my 3rd dimension, see how things work, etc....I've done a lot of inner-dimensional travel with dmt, but it seems as if I am at the "nature" part, learning of Beingness, Oneness, as well as separation from Form and the merging with the Self...I just made a new machine, so that may have diminished the effects of the dmt (my other machine was FULL of spicy goodness, then she broke =( ), allowing me to move...I definitely plan to explore higher dosages as well ...yesterday I consumed about 1/2 g of 3x rue extract, which would even out to 1.5g of seeds...seemed to do the job quite well, tho it may have been induced by taking harmalas the night before...I actually did as you suggested, and realized the dark is the best way to do harmalas alone...I was presented with mild visions of creation...pencils, pens, markers, paintbrushes, musical instruments, etc...Forms of human creaton to convey emotion and life! I was pleasantly surprised that it worked as well as you suggested, considering I only took it because I couldn't sleep and was out of ganja...Thanks for the tip, tho! I only took about 1/4 worth of 3x extract...I wonder what a gram would do in the dark....Either way, the thing I love about the harmalas so far, is the duration...I am able to carry the experience with me into my reality, and apply it...Kick ASS!! =D

Fractal, well, I see your point..>I took a hefty dose of harmalas tonight (bout 4g rue), and was treated to an intensely meaningful experience, but I was laid out and tripping hard for like 1 1/2 hrs, and then after another moderate hit, all over again...damn, everything in life is perfect tho...Wow man, amazing stuff, I am a believer in harmalas now..