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How much can you safely reduce an A/B after filtering? Options
 
endlessness
#1 Posted : 6/10/2011 11:51:33 AM

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To how much you guys think one can reduce, without losing any yields, an acidic solution containing alkaloids (whether its mescaline or dmt) ?

The more one reduces, and specially after it cools down, there should be some mostly impurity sediment/precipitation that can be decanted/filtered. I remember people discussing about possible actives in caapi sediments, do you guys feel this would be the same with dmt/mescaline solutions ?
 

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justine
#2 Posted : 6/10/2011 11:56:46 AM

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DMT should crash out before any impurities, at least that's what happened to me when I reduced the acidic solution of a 400g extraction down to 1.5L and basified. In that case there weren't any impurities at the bottom even after weeks and the yield was great.
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endlessness
#3 Posted : 6/10/2011 12:25:04 PM

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justine wrote:
DMT should crash out before any impurities, at least that's what happened to me when I reduced the acidic solution of a 400g extraction down to 1.5L and basified. In that case there weren't any impurities at the bottom even after weeks and the yield was great.


And if you mixed well the pulls with the basic solution they did not dissolve in the solvent? Do you remember the weight of what precipitated ?
 
justine
#4 Posted : 6/10/2011 1:18:02 PM

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endlessness wrote:
justine wrote:
DMT should crash out before any impurities, at least that's what happened to me when I reduced the acidic solution of a 400g extraction down to 1.5L and basified. In that case there weren't any impurities at the bottom even after weeks and the yield was great.


And if you mixed well the pulls with the basic solution they did not dissolve in the solvent? Do you remember the weight of what precipitated ?


It partly dissolved in the solvent (naphta) but I had to recover 2g by filtering after the fourth pull (final yield around 5g).
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d*l*b
#5 Posted : 6/10/2011 2:16:49 PM

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I generally reduce my mimosa/water/vinegar solution down to about 2mL/1g bark. I do a decant and filter step both before and after reduction.

I have played with reducing to as little as 1mL/1g bark, but had problems with crystals forming in the basic solution which then had to be filtered and cleaned. I have been thinking recently this may well have been to inadequate amounts of solvent being used in each pull.

Yields, even with reduction to small volumes have been great (1–1.7%), the only problem as I mentioned above is the appearance of crystals in the basic solution.
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endlessness
#6 Posted : 6/10/2011 4:43:21 PM

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Hmmmm interesting. Thanks for the answers!

Justine said that 400g in 1.5l, thats like 1g/3.75ml and says she had 2g precipitation out of 400g = 0.5% !

d*l*b says 1g/2ml is fine, and 1/1 is over-reduced.

Anybody else can chime in?

Justine what about so that you dont have this problem, how much do you reduce to?
 
justine
#7 Posted : 6/10/2011 6:06:07 PM

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endlessness wrote:
Hmmmm interesting. Thanks for the answers!

Justine said that 400g in 1.5l, thats like 1g/3.75ml and says she had 2g precipitation out of 400g = 0.5% !

d*l*b says 1g/2ml is fine, and 1/1 is over-reduced.

Anybody else can chime in?

Justine what about so that you dont have this problem, how much do you reduce to?


I think there might have been a lot of dmt precipitation because I pulled with hot naphta and let it cool down
before retrieving it (I used 200ml and it was incredibly saturated).

If you want to reduce a lot it would probably be a good idea to pull twice with room temp naphta as soon as you basify,
and finish with two hot pulls.

Another solution is to buy a bad-ass 6l sep. funnel Pleased
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Carrierwave
#8 Posted : 6/10/2011 6:11:35 PM

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I wondered if people chose to reduce their DMT-salt solution or wait until they had a DMT-Freebase solution to reduce the volume. Main point being the DMT-salt is soluble in water and may or may not evaporate with the water, while the DMT-Freebase is not soluble in water. Fairly sure the DMT-Freebase can decay though in the presence of heat.
 
gibran2
#9 Posted : 6/10/2011 6:40:13 PM

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Carrierwave wrote:
I wondered if people chose to reduce their DMT-salt solution or wait until they had a DMT-Freebase solution to reduce the volume. Main point being the DMT-salt is soluble in water and may or may not evaporate with the water, while the DMT-Freebase is not soluble in water. Fairly sure the DMT-Freebase can decay though in the presence of heat.

Ionic salts do not evaporate with water. That’s why we’re able to purify water via distillation. On the other hand, DMT freebase will evaporate at elevated temperatures.

As a result, one should always reduce DMT solutions in the salt form only.
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Shaolin
#10 Posted : 6/10/2011 6:47:51 PM

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Reducing acidic liquid and DMT solubility/stability
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The Day Tripper
#11 Posted : 6/12/2011 2:14:31 AM

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SWIM thinks that mabey, if you used fumaric acid as your main acid v. hcl, acetic, etc, then you could reduce alot more. DMT fumarate is extremely soluble in water. like really freakin soluble. 10ml can dissolve a few grams of DMT Fumarate in swims experience, at room temp.

So if fumaric acid can work, you could reduce alot more. But swim dosent think you can reduce too much. That kind of change will not F-up your extraction, as long as you aren't stupid and evap it all the way and burn it. Methods may change to keep a less hydrated extraction efficient, but dry/resin/heavily reduced tea teks can and do work. Swim has always had an idea to reduce a mhrb tea down to a resin, FB with Lime, dry with mgso4 and low heat / dry air. Get this down to a powder, then just dump the powder into you NP. Swim would use d-limo, bec. its a efficient solvent.

This should be THE most efficient and low # of pulls way to get the goods. and Basically no water to slow down the pulls, you just have to decant very well, or be able to filter d-limo. Swim can't. Too messy and he is freaking tired of spilling d-limo, filtering always leads to spillage with limo in swims opinion. This is assuming that you can get the dmt to let go of its natural acid, and salt up with the fumaric acid in the initial boiling.

SWIM understands though why more water is good, besides the fact that it holds more DMT. SWIM figures even though there's more water, that gives it more surface area to pull with the NP. Even though the Alkaloid concentration is lower, they are more spread out and accessible to the NP when you shake the shizzle out of your base/np mixture.

SWIM likes the dry tek because its low profile, easy, and doesn't require lots of base. Also because swim is really against using a shit-ton of lye just to extract, then dumping the liquid somewhere. Even thought its used as a drain cleaner, lots of energy was used to make/purify the lye, shipping the lye, etc. Also, SWIM paid for that shit and is known to be stingy lol.

Just think, the goods are still there, even if they precipitate out. As long as you decant, any other funk that gets stuck in your NP is decantable or filterable out. SWIM always gets massive contamination of CaOH in his limo drytek pulls from cacti and rootbark. But let that limo sit over night on something that vibrates, and all of the CAOH will decant out.



Bottom line- IF you can be more efficient with all of your materials and still find good results from a tek, its a fine trade-off, and makes swims wallets and minds a little lighter.
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endlessness
#12 Posted : 7/8/2011 12:48:30 PM

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Thanks for the posts.. The issue is I got a 1l separatory funnel, but started doing a 500g extraction with a friend.. So im wondering how to proceed, because if I evaporate down, Im affraid when I add lye some dmt will precipitate like justine said, and then block the stopcock.... Did this happen to anybody? Justine do you use separatory funnel? (and in this case, day tripper, it wouldnt matter which salt form it was because my issue now is not dmt salt stability anymore but rather freebase dmt crashing out and blocking the sep funnel)
 
 
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