Cool yes SWIM has not studied this procedure in detail or taken a look at chemicals and there costs etc. When SWIMs friend of a friend has some free time he may be interested to give something like this a theoretical analysis can't promise anything yet as am busy.

I remember hearing that THH forms under acidic conditions from harmine and harmaline and the paper posted above seems to confirm that. So yea these experiments aren't that tough.

SWIMs friend of a friend is working on getting some harmine and harmaline and when they have extra supplies experimenting can be tried (time is the main factor for these people)


Yes and about the amalgam that does involve using mercury with some metals SWIM thinks to help catalyze the reaction, SWIM has not looked up the mechanism or thought about it yet either. So that method may need to be skipped as its nasty.

However is this a discussion the moderators will allow us to have as it is synthesis and we said we didn't want to talk about such things? So moderators yay or nay? Technically its derivitization

I also think its more socially viable to do it this way as utilizing tons of b. caapi is not good for natural stocks as its a jungle plant, syrian rue on the other hand is easy to grow etc. However I want to stress something THH is so far legal in most countries and its under investigation as a antidepressant anti addiction type compound. Utilizing it for recreational/spiritual purposes may attract attention of authorities resulting in it becoming illegal for researchers trying to study this interesting compound.

nobody has even heard of THH...i cant see how a few SWIMS producing some is gonna change that

http://www.erowid.org/ch...ca/ayahuasca_law21.shtml



Anyway your right screw it its not like we are really doing any of this stuff anyway just speculating and theorizing. Lets just hope the rest of the EU and U.S. doesn't follow this bad bad example.

Mm. Was afraid of that. The other conversion (or... wait, derivization! :wink referenced zinc, but I'm still leery of tossing metals into hydrochloric unless someone can assure me that I won't be needing the fume hood that I don't have.


Eek. Didn't mean to broach any taboo subjects.


Agreed, but given what I read earlier in this thread about ravenous hordes of hyperspace seekers buying the only reasonably priced known supply of THH out of stock, might it not be more discrete to simply learn to do it ourselves? Just a thought. Of course, it's still going to be up to someone else to figure out how that would be; I can think about it 'till time turns inside out, but it wouldn't do anything.

CIA experiments telypathy and psychedelics



Please VISIT

SWIM post
http://www.drugs-forum.c...m/showthread.php?t=71250

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Please tell me about experiments with THH and telepathic effects.
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If you did it all from scratch, starting with seeds and ending with THH, you’d probably be working the whole weekend long.

Extracting harmala alkaloids is a lot of work. If you've ever done it, it can take all day long just to filter the seeds. It’s relatively simple, but a pain nonetheless. Then you would have to isolate the harmaline which is not as easy as it sounds (I've read that it requires monitoring the harmala alkaloids under a microscope while slowly freebasing them).

Then synthesizing THH from pure harmaline would be a whole new can of worms. From what I’ve read you would lose much in the process (with most yields reported as 60-70%). In TIHKAL, they start with 1 gram of pure harmaline and end up with only 0.53 g of THH. Apparently a lot gets destroyed in the process.

I don’t know. It sounds like an awful lot of trouble to SWIM. SWIM would rather just buy it.

THH isolated in 1950) rather than what the experiments is not in official literature) countries

Hm. Interesting discussion, thx. I think my position is probably most closely resembles Synethesiac's post towards the end.

Back to the subject at hand - SWIM would vastly prefer to just buy the stuff as well, but it doesn't seem to be an option at the moment... unless someone knows otherwise, or is willing to fork over 300 Euros for a gram. !

SWIM agree) so it is right

If a fairly workable process were available, I'd be more than willing to purchase harmala extract, and then attempt the conversion. This is what happens when you're late to the party; I haven't gotten the pleasure of investigating the stuff personally.

I’m also interested. SWIM has once had what seemed to be telepathic effect from a small amount of 5-MeO-DMT taken sublingually. He visited someplace in the world that appeared to be 100% real. Not a hallucination. He was watching these people having a normal conversation about normal everyday life. Nothing spectacular. These were people he didn’t know. They were unaware of his presence. It seemed completely real to SWIM. It’s never happened to SWIM before or since.

SWIM is also interested in the potential telepathic effects of THH. One of the members here talked about such effects. How many of you have experienced telepathic effects from THH? SWIM has not YET. He’s going to order more soon.

How should one go about testing telepathy?

SWIM agree, too) is very sorry that it no longer makes THH(flowingvisions)and very strange

I don’t think you’re too late. It’s just bad timing. The vendor SWIM got his from several times before still caries it. SWIM emailed them to ask if they dropped it because he didn't see it on their web site. They responded saying they are just temporarily out of stock and will get more soon.

Huh. Funny thing, I emailed them as well via their online form and still haven't heard back. Their principal domain bounces emails back, so I couldn't do it more directly. Well, all's well that ends with some THH in my mailbox, I guess... I'll just have to be patient.

As for testing telepathy, I guess any empirical method you'd care to devise would depend heavily on the nature of how, if such a thing really exists (easy, xameleonx, I'm just sayin'... ), it functions - which is pretty much completely unknown as of now. You could do the card guessing game, a la Ghostbusters - simple symbols viewed by another person while SWIY attempts to discern those shapes telepatically. Many verifiable tests could be easily devised, but because of the lack of understanding of the mechanics (for lack of a better term) of ESP, you'd basically be stabbing in the dark, not knowing if your tests are applicable to the phenomenon. Just my two cents, of course.

I've pondered previously what a disaster universal telepathy would be, should it ever be experienced by humanity. We can barely handle the things people *say* to one another, let alone having direct access to the fearful, damaged shitstorm that almost everyone has frothing in their minds. Whoo...

SWIM has gotten some telepathic effects with another person when using THH for lsa and spice enhancement...lots of thinking the same thoughts at the same time...or asking a question when somebody else is thinking it...things just pop into your head and then you say them just to have the other person be like..i was just gonna ask you that..

its been happening to SWIM's all over the place...granted there was also a bunch of spice smoking and acid/mushrooms lsa whatever going on..plus some 2ce here and there...not sure where the telepathy could be coming from

from the post xameleonx linked...its possible it was also coming from the 2CE..but with both being used here and there its possible they could be working together


btw there wasnt any thh and 2ce combos

Realize old name telepathine or whatever it was, was a misidentification of harmine or harmaline being found in b. caapi in the old days. Then they realized it was the same as harmine or harmaline i forget. Telepathine is not or was not a name for THH! This was because people associated ayahuasca with tripping and hallucinating long before people really were studying these things and so called it telepathine (or something) just because it effected the mind and they saw how the shamans used it. This was before they knew that DMT was the main psychedlic component, this is when they only knew about the harmine like alkaloids. If DMT had been isolated first they probably would have named that telepathine. I would be very skeptical in believing this substance can induce mind reading. The CIA would have been all over it. I haven't checked out the link about the CIA using it but if it worked they would be still using it.

Now it is interesting that you all are reporting some kind of telepathic like effect but it needs further investigation as SWIM gets these kind of things also on other psychedelics. Although I wouldn't call it telepathy I would call it more like being on the 'same wavelength feeling the same vibe'. But not directly reading thoughts no one has ever read my thoughts while tripping or they would be quite scared

Anyway yes for the average person just buying the stuff is better then making it but SWIM believes this chemical as well as the rest of the ayahuasca plants (the main ones) will perhaps one day be banned as they already have been in certain countries. People must make ready for this chance. Or resist the laws. I prefer to resist the laws as they have no right to ban these plants but the DEA doesn't think like that and neither does most of the EU. I think australia has already taken measures.

I absolutely don’t agree about that remark about DMT above. DMT is not the main psychoactive compound in ayahuasca. Harmine and THH are the main psychoactive compounds in ayahuasca, DMT just adds extra visual content. It’s just an additive.

Telepathine was used to name the compound in Ayahuasca responsible for the telepathic effects. At the time they thought it was harmine and so harmine was given the name. The reason they didn’t look at DMT was because not all ayahuasca has DMT in it. So they studied only banisteriopsis caapi which is the single plant common to all ayahuasca. Which on its own can cause visions. SWIM has had dream-like visions from just banisteriopsis caapi alone. So I don’t believe for a second that DMT is the main psychoactive compound in ayahuasca. That is just inaccurate, as there is ayahuasca that is very powerful that is made without any DMT at all.

SWIM has had light visual effects from 200 mg of THH citrate taken orally and actually saw a face appear in the wall and saw lots of faint sparkly visual effects. That’s without harmine, DMT, or any other compound taken with it. The visuals were weak, but strong enough to form a face in the wall. SWIM was quite surprised to see the face appear. I imagine if it was taken with 200 mg of harmine, the visuals would have been much stronger.

69ron what would SWIY use for a ratio if one were to combine thh, harmine, and harmline for full maoi..and is 25 minutes a good amount of time to wait before taking the spice?