So I have come to a sort of new place in my relationship with DMT..I never thought I would feel this way but currently I really have lost my desire to smoke it. I find it lacking in depth, although it blasts me off into oblivion I come back sort of indifferent most often in comparison to my ayahuasca and even mushroom experiences.

Now, I have smoked DMT hundreds of times..I smoked daily for the better part of a year. I wouldn't tell anyone else to not smoke it because for me it was an important phase I went through when I smoked that often. I love DMT more than ever, but I find oral DMT with harmalas to be a much richer experience that leaves me with a feeling of newness that is unmatched by smoking DMT, reguardless of how much harmalas are in the change..that is another thing I have realized..harmalas when smoked just dont do the same thing at all for me..they are lacking as well. Changa just is not ayahuasca and cant ever take it's place in my life.

I almost find smoking compared to oral/ayahuasca lately to be like comparing a tricycle to a top of the line motorcycle that cruises effortlessly along the scenic route. I come back from smoking half the time wondering what the fuck just happened. Sometimes it is too much and by the time I am comming back it is over so I have no time to sort of complete the expereince the way I can with ayahuasca. With ayahuasca it doesnt matter how deep I get into negative fealing of fear, or how overwhelmed I get becasue I will always always break through those feelings at some point and come to a place of significant peace and understanding. I never feel like I leave with less than I need with ayahuasca or mushrooms.

I have been drinking alot lately and also taking mushrooms more often than I had since I discovered DMT. At first I sort of stopped taking mushrooms, and shifted from a predominantly oral use of tryptamines to a more frequent smoking of them..this served a purpose as I saw alot of crazy things with smoked DMT that made me think about a whole lot of shit..and I saw the reality behind reality enough times..but now I have come back full circle and have more of an appreciation and respect for both oral use of mushrooms and ayahuasca than I ever had.

I guess I am curious as to how many others have come to the same place..where you smoked DMT frequently at one point and finally moved onto a deeper relationship with the molecule orally? I just find ayahuasca so so much more sophisticated an experience that it leaves me wondering what the point in smoking the stuff even is anymore? DMT feels too fast and compressed to comprehend when smoked. Not that I wont ever smoke DMT again..just that right now all I want is ayahuasca and mushrooms..though if I smoke at the peak of an ayahuasca trip it seems to be a much fuller experience.

I feel the same way. I was curious about how DMT would be when you smoke it, but after i found out i realised that the ayahuasca experience is just so much richer because the time it takes allows you to fully open to it. Ayahuasca experiences have a sort of organic way of unfolding that something as fast as smoked DMT lacks.
On top of that, the combo of ayahuasca and mushrooms is something that has a brilliance that is unequivalled by anything i know.

Interesting thread. I'm currently more into the changa aspect simply because the duration is so much shorter and thus easier to fit into a normal life.

however, the peak experiences for me are always' oral. Only done pharma once and even though it was combined with changa it was still a peak experience.

You are right something about oral tryptamines just alway's works right if you have the time and setting.

I have certainly not done DMT the amount you have, but I lost interest in straight free base DMT pretty quickly because it's just to powerful for most occasions. I'm sure that I will revisit it, but it likely won't be for a while. I also agree that changa isn't pharma, but pharma with changa seems to be a pretty good zone for me at least. I have also not really manned up and done a full size dose of pharma alone...even though I'm certain it would be one of the best.

While I've yet to get around to trying oral DMT + Harmalas I ran into a similar thing back in my acid dropping days. I think that at some time one just reaches a point when they've gotten all they are going to get out of an experience.

With respect to DMT or Changa in particular. I suspect a lot has to do with the mode of ingestion (you end up with a concentration spike, whereas with oral ingestion you get a much shallower/flatter curve), which doesn't give you time to appreciate what is happening--and I can't help wondering if your experience would be different if you were to alter the `time course of concentration' by smoking smaller amounts more or less continuously. [I'm assuming that you tend to take a hit which results in significant effects, then let it run its course or mostly so before indulging again.] Maybe try rolling up a dilute Changa based joint or two, or three, and smoking them in a manner that will give you a time course more like that of oral ingestion.

Of course "set" could have a lot to do with the perceived effects. If you go into it thinking that it will not make any difference you will increase the likelyhood of that happening (or not).

The attached image is from [Lüllmann, Color Atlas of Pharmacology © 2000 Thieme] and illustrates the time course of concentration one gets from various ingestion methods. Inhalation/smoking results in a curve very much like intravenous use, or so I read someplace and sometime ago.

It didn't take long for me to discover the benefits of pharma compared to pure freebase. Most of my productive work with the molecule comes from oral. The amusement park ride of freebase has its time and place, but I almost never smoke plain freebase without a few caapi shots, and now I'm going to try changa and see how that goes. Some many levels to this stuff!

"While I've yet to get around to trying oral DMT + Harmalas I ran into a similar thing back in my acid dropping days. I think that at some time one just reaches a point when they've gotten all they are going to get out of an experience."

funny how alot of people seem to go through that phase with acid. I never took alot of acid but I did take alot of mushrooms at one point a few years back. I ate them probabily 2 times a week durring the summer for a few summers and quite frequently through the winter, but I never ever got sick of them..I still love them more than ever. I just realized the same thing happened to me with salvia..I smoked it often for a period of time and eventaully got tired of the sort of here for a moment aspect of the experience..yet I am really facinated with the longer sublingual salvia expereinces.

I have smoked DMT in every way possible..freebase, changa, joints..Ive smoked hits of changa for about an hour before. I dont think there is a method of smoking/vaping DMT that really can approximate ayahuasca. Most people familiar with ayahuasca come find that it is just so much richer and fuller an experience...I feel like it is metabolized differently when taken orally and so are harmalas..it is hard to explain.

It's not about getting all I can get out of DMT..not at all..I could go a lifetime(and likely will) and still not have gotten everything out of DMT that there is to get. I just feel like smoking DMT is a sort of different level of relationship to the molecule and ayahuasca is something like a step up from smoking..I feel like when I drink it is sort of like "ok now the REAL lessons are going to begin"..

It is not about how far one blasts you off compared to the other either..a mid dose of ayahuasca still feels more profound than a large dose of vaped DMT, becasue there is something so much more elegant in the long run about ayahuasca/analogues(and mushrooms). Even oral caapi/rue and harmalas alone I am finding to be very profound. I have been taking harmalas alot at night and laying there in the dark and I tend to learn more about myself than I do when I smoke DMT.

I would like to try IM injections of DMT at some point, seems like it would be a somewhat more slowed down, fuller experience as well.

I think mushrooms will always be my first love..Mushrooms never got old for me, and the only thing that rivals those feelings for me has been ayahuasca..and to a degree mescaline..so I am growing mushrooms now and plan on working with them alot.

Fractal,
Swim hasnt done as much freebase as you, however with the oral I think you are correct. Oral has been just a intense as freebase, personally much more profound, but I think it is the length of the ride. The multiple hand role changa sounds like a good idea. Swim will have to try that out. Oral seems to be like a big cat, it grabs hold of you and drags you to unknown places so it can feed on your false ego.

Although I don't have the mental kind of stamina to do so on a regular basis, I get the most out of the best of both worlds. My most sublime and informative experiences seem to be when I smoke DMT after having consumed oral DMT.

I get my best results from a strong brew of ayahuasca with DMT smoked 2x over the space of 4 hours.

I love using both orally, but if I want a strongly DMT influenced experience I have crazy nausea and can't get it all down.

Using rue extract I never seem to vomit, but feel like I've been poisoned so they are usually very harsh trips.

Oral harmaloids + smoked freebase is the way to go for myself

well, yeah smoking after drinking ayahuasca or taking mushrooms is different. I think I will save my freebase for those sort of occasions..smoking does effect me differently when it overlaps an oral dose.

Most recently, SWIM has her greatest journeys on strong caapi brews and smoking changa throughout the experience.

She definitely feels that there's a great depth to ayahuasca that smoked harmalas doesn't reach. She's not sure if the way the DMT is taken matters as much.

Edit: She says that she finds sub-breakthrough doses of changa perfect for starting out her daily meditation sessions though. It's much easier for her to lock in her energies. Sometimes at the end of the meditation, she'll go for a breakthrough.

She tends to think of it more like a toolkit, since ayahuasca and mushrooms wouldn't be safe, appropriate or useful for her twice a day meditations.

I concur. Smoking has become just recreational, while the oral way is what I consider serious business, where real mind work and insight get done.... plus the visions are often more mesmerizing with ayahuasca. Smoking is only done in conjunction with harmalas and some mimosa. If I just smoke freebase, I always feel like I wasted it. I feel like, "damn, I could have made that dose go a whole lot further if I ate it, or took in combination with something else. But instead I was impatient and wasted it on a 3 minute semi awesome ride".

I think that aya/pharma is so different from vaporized freebase that I would find it very hard to choose one over the other. They give me valuable, yet very different things. I never use either recreationally.

Pharma is deeply introspective. It allows me to see aspects of myself that I rarely if ever get to otherwise see. It allows me to see myself from a perspective “outside of myself”. It also helps me to feel tremendous empathy toward other people – both people I know and people in general. On the negative side, I almost always have some low-grade nausea throughout my pharma experiences, and my experiences tend to be very long (they usually last 7-8 hours after time of ingestion).

When I use vaporized DMT, I always pre-dose with sublingual caapi alkaloids. This alters the experience somewhat, but not much. There is nothing like a breakthrough dose of vaporized DMT. The speed and intensity is something that’s always surprising. But once I reach a “destination”, the experience usually slows down and becomes manageable. Vaporized DMT has shown me a realm that lies beyond our everyday reality. It is alien and beyond imagination. Being beyond imagination, it is hard not to see it as an independent “place”. Time often becomes irrelevant. While still in the experience, I sometimes think about something that happened earlier, and it seems as if it happened long ago. Yet when I’m finally back and able to open my eyes, I see that I’ve been gone 10 minutes.


If pharma is a marathon,
then vaporized DMT is a sprint.

If pharma is a deep inward journey to the center,
then vaporized is a distant journey to the edges.

If pharma shows me my inner-self,
vaporized shows me my higher-self.

If pharma helps me in the here and now,
vaporized helps “me” in the hereafter.

Nice!

I have done pharma/aya twice now with powerful results. The nausea is constant, even if I purge it remains. In y'all's experience with pharma is the nausea different with base or salt ingestion? IS there a 'breakthrough' point that anyone has experienced with pharma/aya? Last time I could see the veil, like being under water looking up at the surface of the pond. Below the surface was the destroyer and reveler of false ego(perhaps a Kali type entity), above was something else...

You can definatily breakthrough with ayahuasca. I find that nausea is something that lessens over time personally. I dont get much nausea with ayahuasca at all unless I take a really large dose of caapi. Maybe psychotria would be worse as I hear that makes you purge alot more, but I never drank psychotria. Laying still in the dark I can usually keep the nausea at bay when it does come. With rue I noticed a bit more of that cyber-spacial zooming around nausea, but not really a whole lot either. I think harmaline is a bit more emetic than harmine or THH, so when using pharma remember that. I find harmaline awesome for the dreamy visions though.

The thing with ayahuasca and pharmahuasca, is that there is no point in comparing it to a vaped breakthrough in such a way. When you take oral harmalas it turns into something else that IMO a vaped breakthrough alone just does not touch. With oral harmalas the experience opens up and it is as if I really am sort of dreaming awake in the spirit world, and the DMT is like a curtain of luminous light that is draped over the place, but definatily not the main event. I dont like brews where the DMT overpowers everything else though. Everything in balance.

In my experience, the dmt layer has been triggering certain aspects of the dream state. I think in ayahuasca, its main function is to help the ayahuasca.

That is a good description of ayahuasca. How would you describe a smoke? I've also been realizing the importance of the harmalas in a great spice experience. For me though, harmalas alone don't do much



Yes, I have noticed that every time I take hoasca, I spontaneously start recalling dreams that I have had in the past, sometimes the distant past. For no apparent reason, I suddenly remember dreams that I had long ago..... and these are dreams that I would have never remembered otherwise. With dreams, once you've had them, and you don't write them down, they are usually lost forever, in my experience. But the aya sends me back to these dreams. I feel like I navigate through this dream scape and do whatever I need to do within the dream. I can't explain what I do because it's dream logic. In my hoasca state of mind, I realized that dreams communicate on other levels, compared to the logic and time bound reality we are used to communicating in this realm. The best I could describe my actions in these dream states is, "solving puzzles".

I’ve had this exact same experience! It happened only once, but it was a spontaneous recall of a long-ago forgotten dream. I recalled it in all of its detail – almost as if I was having the dream again. It was a nice dream, but not one that I made a point of remembering the first time around (which was maybe 5 or more years ago?) Very interesting.

AWESOME !!!!