I've always thought of alcohol as being a really watered down, low potency entheogen. After 4-5+ standard drinks a lot of people get philosophical, starting to think about the more important things in life. It can allow you to say what has really been on your mind, about anything. It seems to just poke at the core of people a bit, trying to get in but doesn't quite make it, ie - emotions come up that were previously ignored.

Now here's the thing that pisses me off, billions of people are practically hooked on this shit, not realising its just the beginning, that you can go further. Why is this being pedaled by governments and not shrooms or DMT for that matter? (I seriously don't see wanting to keep people stupid a good enough reason) I just don't get it, some authorities much realise that it has the same effects but just on the lowest part of the spectrum. Marijuana being the second, maybe LSA coming in third. Thoughts?

Mojo

Two words for you: Sociocultural preconceptions.

It has nothing to do with the state of mind engendered by the substances in question, and everything to do with the cultural roles they play. Alcohol is socially constructive. In moderation it mediates social interaction and supports the current paradigm. Yes, it can be used as an entheogen... as William James eloquently put it:


But while alcohol does contain the seed of mysticism, I would contend that it is mysticism of a very different variety than that produced by psilocin or DMT which deconstruct the nature of things and let us see the world and our place in it from an almost alien perspective. To borrow and extend James's analogy: Alcohol is a great exciter of the Yes function, while psilocin is a great exciter of the What? function.

I would agree that the inebriated state produced by cannabis, at least at lower doses (or at any dose to those with significant tolerance) is much more like the fluid mental state of alcohol, albeit less toxic and (for some) less stupefying. But that is where the social/cultural factor weighs in heavily. Cannabis is seen as subversive, antithetical to the current paradigm in part because the very use of it makes the user an outlaw, whereas alcohol, by the chance circumstances of history, is seen as almost part of the bedrock of modern civilization.

The social/cultural forces that operate in the legislation are less concerned with the specific effects produced, and more concerned with the perceived role of the substance in relation to the structure of society as it stands.

I suppose alcohol can be an entheogen. Whether or not it's constructive on an average basis in contemporary society is another issue

MojoPin,

Good topic. I've always wondered if alcohol was the spiritual drug of choice in any cultures dating back. Looking forward to reading further posts.

To your question about why the government don't back mushrooms or DMT, I think it's more a case of why they 'back' alcohol. As you are aware, since the industrial revolution there has been a very work-focussed social morality that the majority of people are used to and almost respect. The standard 9-5 Monday to Friday working week pattern for example. Yet, a lot more people work far more hours than this and deal with a lot of work-induced stress. Therefore, as a depressant, alcohol is a very effective short-term way of balancing out this stress. I can vouch for this myself, although I very rarely drink it these days.

Others will argue mushrooms and DMT will allow people to think too freely and break the work cycle resulting in a strain on social security and a lower GDP... and what government wants that?

That's how I've always looked at it. To me, alcohol really seems to be more mind-numbing than mind-opening. If people are sitting around, content with their lives, pursuing spirituality and pondering how hard they're getting screwed by the system, there's not much money to be made off that.

Alcohol can indeed be just as much an entheogen as the next substance, only it's not used as such as much as abused because of the lack of true intention people put into it.

Western society is raised to abuse alcohol. It's not put in front of you as something to expand your mind creatively as much as it is to lower your inhibitions socially and then used to excess in order to make sure you don't remember those embarrassing things you did that everyone else thought was soooo funny.

I've actually had some rather profound insight from alcohol and if I'm not using it regularly or in an abusive manner it can give me some very positive after affects.

In this subject I can only direct you to a book by Dale Pendell, "Pharmako/Poeia". The best book about psychoactives ever published. And I mean it!

I can easily see that, and I was thinking in my head of such examples where that's been the case for myself, but as you put it, in western society we're raised to abuse alcohol and so I may have been projecting (not that I abused alcohol), but by and large, I do not personally see people use it for its entheogenic properties.

I think complaining about tobacco and alcohol not being illegal is a negative thing to do legal wise, the government isn't going to think that's right then make the changes we like they will do the opposite and restrict alcohol and tobacco use more.

i do like a drink though, helps me eat!

I don't think this thread is addressing the legal status of alcohol and tobacco, so much as questioning the validity of alcohol as an effective entheogen, or at least that's what I took away from it.

I'm not sure I'd classify alcohol as an entheogen... even though it frequently feels like an entheogen at the time (provokes very strange mind-states for me, at anything above a few drinks), but the effect from that never carries over into the next day. DMT, mushrooms, ayahuasca and marijuana have each had a distinct (sometimes indirect) positive influence on my life, but alcohol never has. The thoughts and feelings generated during a bout of drinking just never go anywhere.

Not to say a drink isn't enjoyable and at times therapeutic, but I personally wouldn't call it an entheogen.

I've found if I'm feeling a little down and drink just enough so I'm definately there, but not so much that I get a hangover or feel clumsy the next day, I feel pretty good.

There are times when I feel frustrated and find it hard to enjoy the things in life I like eg. music. So I have a few drinks and put on some good music for a few hours and it gets me into a good zone.

However one should be cautious not to do this all the time.

If you feel like drinking for a second night in a row, just smoalk moar

I myself have always struggled to consider alcohol an entheogen. In my own experiences, I mostly just feel a lowered IQ. It also does have a numbing quality to it, and terrible day after effects.

That said, thousands upon thousands of years ago, those people who became intoxicated by eating fermented fruits certainly now had a new way thinking.

Alcohol has certainly become an integral part to human culture, so i guess in that respect it does deserve some credit.

That's called drinking too much too quick

Can you elaborate?

Alcohol seems to be an integral part of cultures that burned witches

“Here's to alcohol: the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.” -Homer Simpson

model glue can be used as an entheogen as well, if someone decides to use it that way..

yes alcohol has a long history of such use..go to nepal..shamans in nepal get wildly drunk every morning and mix it with hash and go off into weird trances and leave offerings of alcohol for spirits..

That said, alcohol gives me a headache, my face goes flush and 2 drinks in or so I get sick within 1-2 hours..any recent work that I have done(afterglows) with ayahuasca or mushrooms, cacti etc will be cancelled out by alcohol just like that. It also brings back inflamation in my digestive tract, something that my diet has basically dealt with..until I drink alcohol. For me it is definatily just a toxin so I avoid it. It might not be that way for others though.

It should be stressed though that ANYTHING can be entheogenic by the very definition of the word, based on how one uses it. Heroin can be entheogenic, as can cocaine, methamphetamine, ether or even super glue.

That depends on how you define the term 'entheogen'...

Much love,
Sally
xx

Just to play devils advocate here though, even DMT can be abused.

The reliability of a substance has more to do with the user.