Hey guys, we never discuss mdma, but that substance gave me more religious experiences than any others in terms of sheer joy and of course quantity (many hundreds). I rank it with lsd in terms of a 'human experience' drug.

Could it be few people have experienced the real deal straight mdma, most of the stuff these days sells for so little the street price wouldn't even cover the cost of precursors.

Mdma is also unique, incredibly so i might say, in that it affects the nervous system in such a unique counter-inebriated way.... it's effects on dance ard emotional expression are surely subjects that are worthy of exploration beyond relegating the whole drug to a bunch of kids strung out at a techno party? Not to mention the quality of the spirituality of those events died when the quality of the E dropped off, and then too many participants got distrcted with ketamine, speed, etc.

Any comments? Aren't there others here who have experienced spirtual experiences via mdma? Perhaps it's still strong in some cities? All i know is in the ealy 90's all the most hardcore freaks would show up in warehouses at 1am with open hearts and open minds and ready to talk and share about weird stuff, crazy stuff, emotional stuff and lots of drug talk for the next 10 hours, the institution of e was my church for nearly a decade.

And i miss it

MDMA I would consider to be an entheogen.

But ecstacy, not the slightest bit.

im waiting to try MDMA (edit:or E, XTC whatever its called) until i know that it is only MDMA.

from what I have heard though, it is an amazing experience especially if you surround yourself with people that you love.

I would consider pure MDMA to be an Entheogen. But not the typical ecstasy that you get from your everyday dealer.

I'm yet to try pure MDMA. But I would definitely be willing to give it a try.

Borderline case. I find it's effects more superficial then those of LSD. Some of the derivates (MDEA,MDA)are quite nice as well. For a period of a few years, MDEA was legal to sell and produce in parts of europe. At that time when you bought a pill, you could almost count on it that it was MDEA. Some people complained then, about there never being any true XTC (MDMA) available. But i think XTC was never as reliable as then, because it was almost 100% sure that at least you had the second best XTC (MDEA). Nowadays they sell everything under the name 'XTC'. As well pretty harmless as pretty nasty chemicals (atropin,MPTP, etc). Some stuff is realy toxic.

SWIM had an occasion (last night) where he had done some pharmahuasca and then at the tale end watched three people take pure mdma...and what he saw was very interesting..

it was like the drugs vibe was extremely agitating..while SWIM was all kinda lost in his own thoughts..the ones on mdma were a bit too intense about the things they were talking about..it seemed forced..and somehow fake..talking about things just to talk..and tell everybody around how much they love each other..while they were having a marvelous time with it all..they didnt seem to realize what the other people were really talking about..just caring about what THEY were talking about..and wanting everybody else to be just as excited about it as they were..

which is all well and good..but it just seemed rather useless...granted SWIM had just had a very wonderfully deep experience so in comparison..the mdma just wasnt much

The reason people seemed like they were agitated and a bit too intense was because the emotional triggers are inflamed to the point you are bursting with emotion, and the need to express it. It must have been decent stuff! Dancing is the best (only) way to truly express is ALL and at the same time without the need for the damned bottleneck of language. It's that realization - that the human mind needs to express itself via the body that is at the center of the wonder of this drug. Some people cannot/do not let go in social situations, but those that learn to via mdma experiences get completely changed.... their inhibitions and self-consciousness as relates to body image really get a liberating boost. I was heavily involved in the scene all through the 90's and saw mdma do more positive than any other drug in my life. Many people "came out of their shells", and learned to let go and talk about who they are, what makes them emotional, and to finally allow themselves to become truly *vulnerable*, and try the things in their life they always wanted to, to follow their hearts rather than their influences.

Anyhow, I used to pay $30-$40 for real mdma and now they try to pass off xtc for $2-$3?!?! And it's blue and purple?!?!?... sheesh... $3 i doubt there is any mdma in there at all today unless you know the source.

Finally, the residual effects of mdma are truly depressing.... you're beat for a good 4-5 days, more if you overdo it, but spiritually you don't feel empty... it's like you're depressed because life is not quite as great as it is on mdma, people are not as nice

When you consider how few entheogens or psychedelics are truly sociable, it is nice to go with something that actually makes me so sociable i could fucking explode.

Oh... and mdma+lsd.... absolutely incredible... imagine your body going through the extreme intensities of your mind... and then put your mind on lsd! I have felt as if i were floating, and i have left my body several times on this combination.

No I don't like call MDMA an entheogen. I've done very pure MDMA and I don't like how it forces you to feel happy and love everyone and all that shit and then I felt bad the next day. Real entheogens in my opinion don't do that.

I feel like MDMA is a fake substance trying to be an entheogen.

My foaf wouldn't call it an entheogen, he never had any spiritual feelings on it. He had very material feelings, like heightened touch such that his whole body was one big orgasm, or such emotions of love mixed with the sadness of being lost in the rain on the way home that he started crying because of the beauty of it all. Then wake up and feel dead inside for half a week, which yes, made it all seem fake. And yeah, when you get something dodgy instead of MDMA it's enough to put anyone off... my foaf didn't enjoy overheating on a flatliner or being full of nasty speedy stuff one bit and he knows a few who've been hospitalised.

But if YOU use it religiously, then surely it's an entheogen by definition?

Incidentally, if you want pure MDMA, he hears the best way is to get powder. He heard that it tastes so distinctly awful that it's impossible to cut without it becoming obvious. He never tried powder himself but he did used to taste his pills before buying and only would if it tasted truly wrong and revolting.

it does taste revolting

I have had what was called "mdma" on 3 occasions. The first time I split half a tab(looking back it was probabily cut, I was naive) that one of my very close friends gave me while we were camping out with some other ppl at the beach. We had already consumed a mushroom chocolate each and were more on the come down. The police came down to close the beach as it was hitting and bringing the shrooms back, so we hid in the bushes near some swamp with another friend who had also eaten the mushrooms. We hid there until they left(bout n hour) then proceeded to build a bon fire with 12 or so others. I ended up meeting a girl durrign the peak and spent the next few hours waking the beach and taking with her. It was magical and I ended up dating this girl for 5 months and then leaving the country with her(she was from boston) and driving down through washington, oregon, through cali where we had one magical night up on shasta, then through nevada and arizona to the grand canyon. ended up in pheonix with barely enough for a greyhound home. So My first memory mdda is one il never forget.

The seond time I was with another friend at an Adam shaik(from interchill) psy trance party, and was givin pure MDMA, and it was magical as well, I have NEVER danced like that before or since.

The third time was horrible with moments of bliss, I again had consumed a mushroom chocolate, and was with a few friends who had dropped acid. We proceeded down to the river that runs through the town, and ended up at some personshouse who I had never met at a bonfire in the backyard. Some guyI had jsut met that night offered me a drink of "water" as i was peaking hard. I took it.. ended up being water with liquid LSD amd MDMA in it.. The night got more and more strange and uncomfortable as ppl kept comming to this house and groups of ppl were snorting K all around meand I freaked out until I jsut took off into the woods, needless to say it was a long walk home. Dont know if I would do it again though. maybe with a significant other some day. I prefer mescaline though.

SWIM personally doesnt like to change locations very much while tripping...one little incident can change the whole night...he likes being in a nice secure location that he has control over...its all about the set and setting...setting is huge

Ya i agree, I used to always get stuck tripping with others who wanted to party more than do the whole shamanic thing. I now usually enjoy my mushrooms in the comfort my room alone in the dark with headphones, with the exception of music fesitvals and such.

A nice place somewhere in nature in my preference. With a good view then I don't need to go anywhere. But sometimes I like to walk around a bit.

"Human experience" is right. I wouldn't call it an entheogen, but I suppose that depends on your definition of a spiritual experience. I've taken E pills, not pure stuff, but everything felt so right. I would probably attribute an entheogenic experience with being outside of our everyday perceptions. Ecstasy made me more in tune with the world around me. People, plants, music, etc. It's a beautiful thing.

mdma is not that great.. it just makes you really happy. but weed makes you really happy too if you only smoke it once a month or so. mdma can cause severe brain damage from only one use. the happier you get on mdma the more damage it causes.

use mescaline instead! it makes you REALLY happy! and it also opens your mind further and lasts longer. mdma doesnt last long enough.

MDMA does not cause brain damage (at least at the cellular/tissue level)! I thought this myth would be over by now, but it persists. As a matter of fact it is not neurotoxic in recreational doses.

Although I think MDMA is a safe compound and a beautiful experience, I would also not consider it an entheogenic substance in the sense that LSD, DMT or mescaline is.

yeah i think lorax is right, mescaline for me contains all the good stuff of mdma plus so much more... and i dont get that horrible back cracking, joint popping hang over as I come down.. maybe not everyone gets this but I did, everytime.