Well, I was referring to your take on the infant death syndrom in which you stated that when the infants recognized their place in the omniverse they would choose to die rather than go through with life... To me this sounds very much like "if you reached total gnosis you would want to stop living." But perhaps I misunderstood.

I disagree with your idea that "to believe [life] isn't a struggle seems like a form of denial, denial meaning it makes YOU happier, but it isn't the truth". The truth is something intangible and especially in this context something subjective. So if I go through life feeling like it's not a struggle at all (which unfortunately isn't the case) then it's true for me, no? Regardless of circumstances. This has to do with the attitude with which we approach life. We can see obstacles as challenges or as problems, we can see our fate for example as a punishment for original sin or a learning experience to progress the universe / transform our soul ... Depending on which attitude we take towards the multitude of things that can and will happen to us in our lives, we can be disheartened, depressed, scared, inhibited OR curious, challenged, optimistic, at ease and progressive - or anything in between and beyond.

Since death is inevitable I see no point in overly concerning myself with it. Life on the other hand is now and it is this that IMO requires my full attention. Whatever happens when I die, it WILL happen. There is no way I can mess that up; in life however I have many chances to do things rather poorly - like attach myself to negative ways of thinking and not exist in my full potential as a being. At least this is my take on the matter .

I apologize for sounding like I wanted to criticise your beliefs. I was really just sharing my thoughts on the matter, as one does when discussing certain topics. I think it's important to question our beliefs now and then under the aspects of how healthy they are for us and our existence, and discussions like these are always a nice way to do so, being put in contact with other opinions, ideas and beliefs.

Zzzarathustra, I agree that dmt is 'just' an experience. As stated above, truth is a term I find very hard to use, especially in context with these things. Truth to me is like matter. It seems solid at first glance, but if we look closer we can't really define it as such any more. It's neither one thing nor the other... Whatever we gain out of our experiences however is ours to gain, and if it makes us better beings, makes our lives more positive, more rich, if we benefit from it in any way, then that's what matters, no?

As for not wanting to stop existing, I think certainly this is something we as living beings all share. But at the same time it is an attachment to a form of existence that is not necessarily all that you are... At the moment you identify with this body, this mind, your thoughts and feelings, but perhaps this is just a construct embedded in a much larger being-existence. If you can shift your identity to the larger processes of the universe then personal death could seem like only another transformation of energy.

much love
Enoon

sure, lets call it acceptance. I don't know what it is exactly. These are just words, but when I achieve that mindset I'm sure I will know. I haven't had any close calls, except for one ego death experience on mushrooms I can't say I've learned much about death personally.

The word "struggle" has such a negative context. You removed it to formulate exactly what I meant to say.

I'm longing for death because I cannot imagine how life could be a good thing. (And I say this from a life which is currently being filled with light. It's in that period. Hah.)

For me, life is suffering. Even when it's full of joy. That joy is not enough to make it worthy.

The only place where I could find peace is in understanding of the why and the how. Then I could serve the system, strive for perfection, fulfill my obligations, my purpose, even if it's just growing up to become delicious fodder for an alien God.

Yeah, beauty is surely present, in moments. And then it goes away. If only it never happened, if only it never tortured my longing soul.

cellux I dont know how to interpret what you are saying. Should we be worried about you? Much love brother, yes life is suffering and life is loving and pleasure and everything in between. Its still damn amazing to be alive, personally im very thankful for it. If theres anything I can do for you let me know!

as an attempt for the poetic expression of a deep sorrow I'm carrying in myself since I've been born to this world.

(I'm not suicidal at all, I just wanted to say something about my core experience because I find that this perspective is a bit under-represented on the Nexus.)

[EDIT:] Removed - sorry, I probably misinterpreted what cellux was trying to say.

...and welcome to the forum Zzzarathustra!

'Not at all alike is the world of God and those of the mortals' -Herodotus
'If you ever think you understand the TAO, it means that you've just left it' -Jung
'anyone who claims to understand quantum physics without intense anxiety, did not understand quantum physics'- S. Hawkings

Hi, I use these three quotes to present you Mankind vs. Chaos, The general message from much spiritual figures or quantum and para-scientists is that Chaos is cool, chill, everything emerges and returns to it BUT don't you try and understand chaos, because you won't. Acceptance is beyond comprehension, Once you have understood the phenomenon of death (as in end of life, not as in what is after death) you must accept it BUT!!! don't you go back to the comprehension phase.
One thing for sure about death, no matter how rational, spiritual, true, proven your method of approaching the question is... you will be smashed down and it will be an apocalypse, it will be a Revelation

Enoon said a couple posts earlier: **At the moment you identify with this body, this mind, your thoughts and feelings, but perhaps this is just a construct embedded in a much larger being-existence. If you can shift your identity to the larger processes of the universe then personal death could seem like only another transformation of energy.**

I have been through state of mind that I consider beyond death during DMT experiences but only a few and I was guided by a spirit to get rid of the Illusions my ego can create even after breakthrough.

I reccommend you read 'The Psychedelik Experience'' by Tim Leary (or at least read the first chapter), it is an analysis of the Tibetan Book of the Dead, wich was meant to help Buddhist Lamas to practice... Death and reincarnation. It is easy to understand and will help you breakthrough the Bardos (Layers of your ego) and reach a complete state of Ego Death, through natural exercises.
The buddhists believe that our mind is powerful enough to perfectly simulate the sensation of death, because we reincarnate, so it is only a matter of remembering. Maybe you'd find the Tibetan and Zen Buddhist schools interesting for thanatonautics.
This curiosity that you have towards death in a blessing, not a disease. Don't believe people saying you have depressive thoughts... If exploring dark stuff such as death (without the killing part of course) brings you to a sacred truth state of mind, don't waste your time understanding (why am I so intrigued by death) and accept it, adjust your surroudings to who you really are and I can bet, the depressive thoughts will go away.

Poetry/Art is a channel through the worlds beyond wich your mind can create and the world of Newton and euclidian physics. So here are the lyrics of Radiohead's Pyramid Song, Thom Yorke's peotry is a medication against thanatophobia IMO.

I jumped in the river and what did I see?
Black-eyed angels swam with me
A moon full of stars and astral cars
All the things I used to see
All my lovers were there with me
All my past and futures
And we all went to heaven in a little row boat
There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt

@CELLUX: I strongly agree with you my brother, it is a rotten world we live in, taxes we pay are used to expand industry into thrid world countries, we Kill, we exploit, we steal, we emprison... And the way people deal with this is horrible, people are absolutely unconscious of the world around, people are delusional and rationally irrational!!! Here in Canada, the reaction to most opression is 'This is chickenshit we see worst on TV'
The reaction you have towards society is simply a natural reaction, it is the way we should all react to the horrible things our government does in our name... collective guilt for all of mankinds screw-ups.
In psychology, we call this resilience, it is the beginning of conditioning, and you have fortunately escaped it

But you have to remember my brother, you have to remember to let it all go, because if you don't, society will win and break you into a consuming machine, and your fears about this society will become reality... remember this brother... Let go and forgive.
'The path wil be shown to those who will listen' -Jesus

Ohm
Peace and much love to you all!

I understand the wish/longing to find peace in understanding of the why and the how, to serve the system, strive for perfection, fulfill my purpose. It's almost an obsession (for me).
You want to understand the why and how so you could find the missing piece of the puzzle, and adapt yourself to fit perfectly in. Fulfilling your purpose, being perfection and serve the system. Nothing less, nothing more.
This would be the most easy way to live, you don't hurt anyone, no judgements, no questions.

Do I understand you correctly?

welcome to the nexus zzzzzzzzzzarathustra!

good-luck on finding your answers (and naturally more questions afterwards) here and wherever else your path travels =]

sent you a PM

You will die and you will come again.
Your next lifetime will have the Karmic imprints and influences of this lifetime.
Practice maximizing Karma this lifetime - for the next lifetime.
Practice Karma to honor your continuum.
Practice Karma for the Universe.

You are a Baton.., run well because you are passing the stick right back to yourself.

I think most people do not fear death, as SWIMfriend stated previously, but rather fear the act of dying. Maybe that is what you meant to convey, Zzzarathustra? That you are afraid of dying? Often they are interchangeable: death and dying. I'd say it's easy to have no concern with death, but when one is placed in the actual moment of dying: recollecting thoughts, entering a state in which one cannot prevent one's biology from ceasing, acknowledging that it is the final issuance of one's earthly life, I doubt the majority of people would act nonchalantly (mentally or physically). I presume that you are fond of Nietzschean philosophy. What do you think of the concepts of the eternal recurrence, amor fati, and the affirmation of life? I know when I delved into these concepts, they helped me accept, but more importantly, embrace and possess strife, death, and all aspects of life. I believe being, or striving to become a "Yes-sayer" relieves oneself of the former anxiety/angst/anguish, or perturbing thoughts in general.