Don't get me wrong I also sometimes like to just trip hard for the WOW factor of it, and just as much I like it for the personal growth I've experienced. But reading through posts I think lately it seems more and more people are only interested in tripping balls. It appears there only interest is breaking through/vivid hallucinations etc and seem to be so focused on that they fail to see the bigger picture with what dmt offers, posts of lessons learned are becoming rare. Sometimes trips aren't so visual but normally for me it lets my subconscious guide me to where I need to look. Post about being shut out of hyperspace are getting more common and people are looking for answers but I think they are asking the wrong questions, I believe intentions as much as set and setting etc can alter your perception of the trip. Maybe you have been shut out but maybe ask yourself why.

So I ask am I/are we kidding ourselves into thinking we are growing/learning from these psychedelics. Or like the rest are we just tripping balls?

I think the amount of research thats been done and the countless positive affects people report from these things make it clear that they can have extraordinary positive affects when used wisely. But that would be a bummer if we all were "jus trippin' ", wouldn't it?

I think all experience is a drug experience..see body chemistry.

IMO, these things are much like what Huxley thought- chemical keys that reduce the limiting valve of experience, allowing more of the billions of bits of info coming in every second to reach awareness. This probably isn't all flowing through our awareness constantly because we wouldn't have been able to outrun predators or navigate through rush hour traffic if we're busy swimming in this abstract sea of information. Filter removers and metta-programming agents is how i like to look at them. But this doesn't mean i'm ignorant to the fact that they are also catalysts for the most fun you could possibly imagine

The hyper-suggestibility is one thing some people don't seem to realize occurs though..The minds incessant desire to slot experience into conceptual categories doesn't disappear forever just because your tripping..and this aspect is the root of many delusions that can take hold i think..far too often we are too quick to latch onto the nearest and most convenient insight pouring in during the altered state, and this can have detrimental affects if its not consciously realized and the grip is too tight. Remember the "jesus syndrome"? Countless people have had that trip

I also like the car analogy..it can be used in many different ways with many different results. You can drive off side of the mountian and into the gaping abyss, or to the top where the UFO launchpad awaits

I know of the positive effects I have experienced them myself, I just think the whole package isn't being looked at as much now, some people just focus on the tripping part. Good to see others enjoy the full journey also.

After so many journeys I've come to the conclusion that it's just a drug. It doesn't take away too much from the magic but one must always keep in mind that it is drug induced magic. The mystical states you achieve are fleeting unfortunately, there is no real "enlightenment" to be gained, just a powerful compelling sense that there is and it's just around the corner. However I have had some crazy odd little visions of the future that have come true and all sorts of reality-warped madness/synchronicity (I'm sure everyone can relate), so I would not say that it's "just a drug" in the sense that your experience is a hallucinatory dream figment that you can just disregard. It's a bit more than that, somewhere more solid than a dream, more real than sober reality yet still an illusion. The lessons learnt are extremely important of course.


What I make of it is that spice puts your brain into a state of neural hypercommunication. All the signals in your brain that would normally bump around awkwardly and die off suddenly just sync up like Jesus rose from the grave and so you get brought into a state of trance, a state of peak flow. There are some forms of increased intelligence in this state and so such a trance state is a powerful state of mind for learning and doing things in; psychs provide rapid access to that. But you can achieve this state any day any time by meditating while doing whatever you wish to do and that's far more "solid" and accessible. And you don't jump between crazy conclusions doing that, something I find happens on psychs a lot.

hey ewok,
I can relate to what you feel about some of the posts on trippin' ballz. It's one of the reasons why I suggested the template for comparative analysis of bio-assays and also initiated the discussion about the separate "quality trip reports" section. I guess the problem is, that it's easier describing the effects on perception, like visuals and states of mind, than the subtle changes in the qualities of how we feel afterwards, let along the process of change and integration that follow.
I think it's rare that a trip will give you a very definitive lesson that you can write down "for all the world to see". And an in depth analysis of any trip can be tedious and maybe not all that exciting for the rest of the world to read, even if there was a beneficial quality to it. so it could be a matter of us missing the tools or the ability to communicate the actual gains, if one can even call them gains. Even to ourselves the changes might be not all that clear, the meaning of an experience only unravel over weeks. So we may KNOW that it was meaningful, but be unable to grasp at how it was - hence we describe the ineffable feelings and visions without the context that the experience is afterwards bedding into and dynamically shaping as well.

So how can we change this? I guess in general I'm for writing less trip reports and more analysis work being done, but this takes time and may sum up several trips that have taken place in a few months or so. Also this is just my personal taste. Some people love trip reports and reading them, regardless of the context they are put into. And I can understand this too, because the trips are quite fascinating, the visuals, the whole roller coaster ride etc.

In the end I think we can definitely learn from using psychedelics. Notice I don't say "the psychedelic experience". I find it important to distinguish the two. The experience is just one small aspect in the whole process of using psychedelics for personal development. As with anything else that aims for personal development, actual work has to be done on the self. This could mean doing the work by using techniques during the influence of the psychoactives but it most definitely means, to me, to do the work after the experience is done. If we don't do this consciously the mind might still grow from the unconscious parts that will try to make sense of the experiences, but it might also not have a clue how to go about doing that, meaning that the experience gave us no more than a great memory.
So I think anyone who is serious about growing, can use psychedelics to his/her benefit. Anyone who isn't serious about it probably isn't deluding himself about it either. I couldn't say what the trend in the nexus is at the moment, but personally I am very interested in development and I chose this place specifically for what I felt was a general vibe of like-mindedness. I think the idea of "lessons" just can't really be applied to measuring the sincerity of someone involved in psychedelics.

my 2c

cheers & love
Enoon

I hear you ewok,
That is one of the reasons to aggregate my experiences into one thread + analysis:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=20691

I also believe that it would do much good if people experienced with psychedelics could advise newcomers to focus more on the learning process. It's easy to drown yourself in euphoria (or terror) without learning anything at all. You have to meditate about it. Sometimes, the message isn't crystal clear.

You know, in terms of wanting to see the breakthrough and vivid hallucinations, I think many may initially approach the situation "wanting to trip balls" only to be smacked in the face with a lesson. Personally I am compelled to experiment with the molecule for several reasons. It provides me with knowledge, it has vastly reshaped my outlook on everything, it can show me the unimaginable and can be highly euphoric at times. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to see what's past the veil. It's fascinating. Furthermore, one shouldn't try to impose their view of the experience on others, perhaps with the exception of when someone asks, "so, this will really fuck me up right?" Doing it to see amazing displays of significantly arranged light (which is one facet of what I think you mean by "tripping balls" ) as opposed to taking a drug to get fucked up are two completely different things. Many of those seeking it out for negative reasons will usually find themselves in a position where they will not want to do it again, or will be humbled, see the error of their ways and progress as human beings. I have loads of friends whose goal it is in life is to get fucked up constantly. Of all these friends that are coming to mind that have tried DMT, the majority of which have not done it more than twice. Also keep in mind that in the society that we live in that is both macho and ever-bound to notions that what they perceive in their sober consciousness is only what can be real, that it becomes difficult to express to others what they may really be taking away from the experience or in disregarding everything as mere hallucination, any lesson learned can become meaningless.

It all depends on the user and your capacity for understanding. Many people have here have certainly learned many things from the psyche's and had experiences which define their lives. As for an easy and solid lesson, your right, there isn't one, its a gradual unfolding of understanding and were all in it together. Clearly words cant describe these realms so the notion that the experience can be reduced to a simple lesson is false, it is just what it is, and it stands on it's own, its a very powerful thing, and I reckon it doesn't really matter what we think about it now, its true purpose is yet to be revieled.
I personally am all about the personal growth and things learned, Thats what life is all about, my personal beliefs are that these plants really do have/harbor spirits that dwell in other dimensions, and you can acess these dimensions through consuming them, thats right i believe ITS ALL REAL in some form or another, and at some point, that label REAL doesn't even matter, Its life its an adventure, why not let it be glorious and magical? it is what you make it you create your reality

I think most people here are in it for personal growth in some way or another for sure,
People have been enjoying "the full shamanic journey" for millenia and will continue to do so. Keep in mind most people on this forum are probably between ages of 20-30 and live either in america or in Europe, this whole shamanic drugs thing is very new to our generation, so naturally there will be some misinterpritation with it's integration,

As far as medidation getting you where dmt does. It never has for me, and i just plain don't believe it. Im not saying its not valuable, certainly it is extremely valuable, but come on it is nothing like dmt or other tryptamines lol. You can quiet your internal voice, and just be and all, but you can't go on a shamanic voyage to the core of your soul, at least as far as I know.. there just not the same thing so shouldnt be compared as substitutes for one another.

When Chögyam Trungpa tried LSD, he said it's like "supersamsara."

Which I find quite amusing. I can certainly relate to how LSD can show samsara in such an extreme intensified way that it becomes quite evident how the illusion works. Also, the idea makes it clear that the solution is somehow... "perpendicular" to everything that happens, whatever the state of mind may be.

Nothing wrong with enjoying the experience and without fun why would we do these things, I enjoy it I've had some incredibly fun trips and some horrifying trips. I've been in the stage of doing drugs for the sole reason of getting as messed up and possible which I think was the catalyst for the horrifying trips.

I seen it was my intentions that caused the bad experiences I only focused on one layer of the puzzle. And once I worked through it realizing there is more to it. I started to grow from the experience which gave me a positive feeling, leading to positive experiences so they once again became fun and I was still learning from it.

I believe after awhile one goes with the other. Enjoying it and growing from it.

You know I think the last thing we want to do with the experience is to add some guilt for enjoying the pleasurable like it's some Catholic sin or something.

This reminds me of the conflicting ideologies of Aldous Huxley and Timothy Leary. Huxley believed entheogens should be reserved for a class of intellectuals, while Leary, in contrast, believed entheogens should be accessible to just about anybody. I have mixed views on the subject. Personally, I would prefer people use these substances more than a means to getting obliterated beyond belief. At the same time, maybe this "obliteration" is a necessary act for which people will eventually feel obliged to change their views on their usage of the substances. Also, heroic dosages are often used with the intention of a deeper exploration rather than just having a sense of "tripping balls." It's ultimately up to the individual. If he or she is just using these substances to "trip balls," in the course of time, these substances will end up giving unpleasant results.

Agreed!

In response to the title:


Undeniably yes.