Hi, so here is SWIM's report back:

he did a small scale extraction (Q21Q21 style) with 25g of MHRB using straight sunflower oil.
After about four pulls each salted 4X he got a yield of about 450mg, the first salting was kind of crystallin and tan colour while the next ones were more waxy and reddish.
The yield and the texture were correct, it smelled spice when burned so he was quite pleased with this extraction even if the product smelled like french-fries...

Yesterday night he loaded his gvg with 25mg, vapped... and nothing! Only a small effect very subtle. Another 30mg in a bong... SAME!
He can't really hide his massive disapointment really but he tried to stay with the idea that it's just experiments and it just needs some tuning for using such solvents...

To understand more and find his mistakes here is his process:

-acidification w/ vinegar + near boiling water
-basification w/ lime
-NP wash w/sunflower oil
the container was placed on an electric heater for a while during each pull to allow a better fluidity of the oil
-salting w/water-vinegar (5/1)
-evaporation in a glass dish on the same electric heater overnight
-smoking :evil:
Thanks for any insight on this and of course critics welcome...

SWIM's never tried q21q21's tek, nor sunflower oil, but sorry for the disappointment.


Extraction:
SWIM went ahead with a rather shoddy experiment recently: Having attained shredded MHRB--rather than pre-powdered, as he had been using for these particular experiments--and having burnt out his blender from rather foolish behavior in prior experiments, he went ahead and gave the shredded a nice acid bath, as it was. He also happened to have run low on lime, and decided to have some fun; having only about a quarter of a cup of lime, he brought it up to just over a half what he had left of prepared sodium carbonate and topped it off with a bit of bicarbonate to ~1 cup. He distributed this evenly between two halves of a 200+g extraction, neutralizing the acetic acid, then stirring and adding a bit of water. He then proceeded to submerge the basified mixture in as little soy bean oil as necessary to not have any shreds uncovered. It became a bit tricky to decant, as shredded bark and sodium carb/bicarb do not absorb water particularly well; needless to say, he had to do a bit of work to get that separated.

Salting:
He then went ahead his more theoretical (less shoddy) experiments by salting with dilute vinegar (at least 1:5 distilled white vinegar to tap water), shaking vigorously for an extended amount of time but no more than five minutes, tops. As per usual, he popped the HDPE jug of the unseparated oil/vinegar mixture in the freezer over night. The oil did freeze into a gel-like slush, but the polar layer containing the dissolved salts froze into a solid chunk. He shook it up a bit, and while the solid polar chunk remained undisturbed, the oil slush broke up quite easily. He squeezed the oil out like shampoo, shaking it a bit more now and again. A bit had been left over, so he added a tiny bit of limonene and a dash of 90% IPA, shook it (this was all quick enough that the ice chunk was still solid and intact), and poured it out into a designated container.

Crystallization:
To remove the polar layer for evaporation (in a food dehydrator), he gave the jug a hot water bath until thawed, then poured it into a gravy separator. A bit more oil was present, so he poured out the water layer into a dish, leaving the oil behind. He evaporated the vinegar/acetate solution at 68C for a day until there were only oil droplets and acetate resin. The oil droplets were removed with a quick dash and decant of IPA, leaving the acetate resin undisturbed and apparently undissolved (no loss could be seen), and he left it in a dry place for a short while to ensure all solvents (oil and IPA) had been removed. He did some partial manual-crystallization-style scraping and smearing and popped it back into the dehydrator for a short time. He repeated the process a few times before proceeding to full manual-crystallization and beyond.

Results:
A few observations he had during the scraping, smearing, dehydrating process were fairly interesting: Immediately after the IPA wash of the precipitates, the simultaneous odor of acetic acid mingled with freebase could be detected, which made sense due the extended dehydrating from initial evap. Each time he repeated the scrape/smear between stints in the dehydrator, the smell of acetic would subside as the precipitates cooled while the odor of freebase became more prevalent. To SWIM's mind this is a very good indicator for confirming the heat-dissociation theory regarding the acetates; that and the simple fact that while mixture came out quite gooey, it was able to solidify more and more as the process was repeated.

A super hard, dark resin ball was obtained, and seemed a bit sketchy though the product was quite pungent with the goodies. SWIM then proceeded with further experimentation by mixing up a saturated solution of newly prepared sodium carbonate. Hed would then add it dropwise to the resin ball, flattening it with a spatula while doing so, being careful not to add an abundance of water that could carry away droplets of product in suspension. He then proceeded with manual crystallization, yet again in an attempt to attain solid chunks of product, carefully washing away salts and base with cold water, but he could only achieve a soft, slightly sticky ball with an odd coloration.

Despite his concerns, it proved quite active, despite the apparent impurities. He loaded 36mg into a screen shaped into a sort of cone which he had zeroed the scale to prior to loading. He popped this into his smoking device (The Inspirator mkII), which had been thoroughly cleaned to remove any possible leftovers, melted it a bit by feather with the torch, then went ahead and hit it with the intent of getting it all in one toke. The result was definitely a breakthrough, though not as strong as he's come to expect.

Conclusions:
SWIM suspects a number of possible contributing factors may have led to the resulting impurities (causing discoloration and softness). Firstly, the lack of an adequate amount of lime, secondly, the excessive liquid in basification (also partly due to the lack of lime, possibly also the usage of shredded MHRB instead of PP), thirdly, an IPA wash between each session of the acetate precipitates in the dehydrator may have helped, and lastly, the use of sodium carbonate solution in freebase conversion may have been unnecessary to supplement the heat dissociation (as it turned rather difficult).

Overall, SWIM is rather surprised at just how wide the thresh-hold for error really is. Despite his worst efforts and strange results, he still achieved a rather smokable product. And it would seem simplification would have been the best way to have improved the quality of the yield.... He also made the time to test the Inspirator with a heating element devoid of ceramic fiber (rolled up steel screens only) with success, albeit a tad bit more demanding of skill with handling the torch; it'll be elaborated upon further in the appropriate thread.

The Blue Entity has some Chacruna that he would like to try a non toxic tek on with veggie or olive oil. He cannot find too much on Chacruna extractions on the Nexus.

Armor, how would SWIY go about doing this tek with Chacruna?

Probably just a typical limtek, but it may or may not require a defat.

He wonders about the N-oxide though. Is is true that most of the DMT is in N-oxide form like Phlux said in another thread?

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...osts&t=4812&p=14



If so, what is the best way SWIY would go about it with this tek, either keeping non toxic, using 99.98% IPA or zinc?

Possibly using zinc in the acid bath would help; otherwise, SWIM believes that there's no reason limteks necessarily wouldn't pull n-oxides in the oil flush, since there's no polar layer to contend with, and then there's the salting phase that would definitely grab them if they're present in the oil.

My cat just did a veggie oil ex. following mosty the q21 lime tech, mixed with spiceman's poor mans tech, Salting with vinegar, and freebasing via heat from oven, I did not re-x the final product with IPA or Acetone, as I wanted to see if it was possible using only lime vinegar and oil. The result was a tar somewhat resembling hash, and a high yield (final yield not known but so far around 1%) This was mixed in with cappi while being heated in oven to freebase...

I will make a full post about it once i have bioessayed the product, but 2 of my friends did cause i left it at there house, and 1 of them said it was just as good as the other spice I had made (with naptha), and the other (a girl) had mixed results and said she was somewhat scared and thought she was messing with somehting too powerful.... All good news to me!! I hope to discover just why she was so scared, and also plan to bioessay it for myself.
Ill keep you guys posted! thx to the veggie pioneers~

My friend told me a little more about his trip...

He was apparently transported to a temple or pyramid structure, all with a very mayan or incan theme, and was surrounded by waterfalls of some sort, coming down the walls and all around him.
He reported it as a very positive experience...

Ill report soon with my own findings

This was SWIM's result with ~.25%+ from the afformentioned "shoddy experiment" (sodium carb and bicarb used with merely shredded bark), but the same consistency with being hash-like. SWIM wonders at whether a de-fat during the acid bath would help to get a more pure product, since the heat application would pull a bit more impurities.... Strange though that the FASW results would be so different. SWIM will continue experimentation after more thoroughly pulverizing the mixture and throwing in a bit more lime. Again, he's hoping to get a more pure result than is typically obtained with limonene by using pure veggie-oil, but the previous results may indicate that his theory in this regard is wrong, in which case he will likely prefer the veggie oil and limonene mixture.

One thing SWIM's not clear on, Harmalosa: Was lime the base of choice for extraction, or sodium carb/bicarb? this may be the solution to the resin riddle, since lime is preferred with cactus extraction to avoid the necessity of a de-fat.


SWIM had mixed results with his product, largely due to the gooeyness of the product clogging up the airflow. When this wasn't a problem, it was only slightly weaker than the limonene (or limo/veggie-oil obtained, of which he has noticed no difference whatsoever) obtained product. He's just surprised about how easily the haphazard extraction process obtained a smokable product, leaving no excuse in his mind for any discrepancies regarding the ease or efficiency of limtek. Regarding the product itself, he would have been interested to smoke the resin product obtained prior to the sodium carb wash. We'll see what the next extraction brings.

The Green Alien is gonna try an extraction with some organic Eden soy oil so he can see the difference of how he likes an organic soy oil experience compared to an organic extra virgin olive oil experience.

The end result with the olive oil was a nice powder, not oily at all. He doesn't know if that's because he pulled the freebase with IPA. He will try just a water wash of the freebase with the organic soy.

He's been calling the olive oil stuff "Extra Virgin Delight" to a few friends that have tried it hehe. Funny because 2 of them were actually virgins to smoking DMT. All had great and visual experiences.

armor, SWIY should try with some organic extra virgin olive oil next time so SWIY and him can debate as to which is better.

So he tried to freebase some of the Virgin Delight fumarates with the water wash method. They did not seem to want to stick to the dish and mostly got washed in the water. He doesn't think they are oily enough. He evaporated the water and is gonna pull with IPA.

He is probably gonna try the "The slow pure white crystallization method". Anyone have some good feedback from that method?

Not sure. SWIM's only ever used his own method and Ice House's 10min. tek besides using various drytek and, of course, STB-style freebase conversions in the past. He's interested in acetate resin for the moment, but if freebase isn't adhering to the dish (possibly due to the presence of residual veggie-oil serving to lubricate), the contents could probably be decanted into a small vessel to continue with the 10min tek ala freeze precipitation.

Yeah I did that slow crystallization a couple of times and put it up with the pics on the wiki, after infundibulum gave me heads up on this possibility, so if you have any questions feel free to ask It should work just as stated, fumarates dissolved in water, mix saturated sodium carb solution and into the fridge for 3 or so days.

After retrieving crystals, freeze and thaw water just to retrieve last bits of crystals that might have not precpipitated

SWIM's had some trifling results from vinegar evaporations. Something seems to be gumming up his product and almost seems like a sugar, as it has a sweet smell and seems to caramelize when an attempt to vaporize is made. He believes it to originate in the vinegar itself since evaporating straight vinegar left a powder and he had the same impurity when salting from straight limonene as well as veggie oil. This may be unique to the particular generic brand of vinegar, so he'll try evaporating some heinz distilled white vinegar and see what comes of it. Kind of unexpected and troublesome...he'll get to the bottom of it.

amor_fati, that sounds like a similar issue discussed here, on the goo factor in mescaline acetate. SWIM personally got the goo using glacial acetic acid her first time, but the vinegar she used recently doesn't evap clean and was much gooier.

Anyone tried a veggie extraction of Bufotenine? He wonders if it would pull the nasties or not. Perhaps if one found the right oil or a combination of different oils that would do close to the same as naptha and heptane.

Hey sorry for not making it clear what base was used, and for the long delayed response, i just basically forgot lol.

But anyways PICKLING LIME was indeed the base used.

Since then i have tried this method several more times, exept freebasing with sodium carb at the end instead of freebasing via heat from oven, and i did an acetone wash on the final product this time....

It worked better than before, similar yield a little less than a gram from 100 g, but i think i could have pulled more from my oil..

1 thing that was wierd was there was clearly 2 different substances at the end. some white, semi chrystalline sparkly dry gunk, and a resin ball similar to last time only much lighter tan color....

1 gripe I had with freebasing via sodium carb at the end is that in spicemans tech, it calles for 1/3 as much sodium carb as acidic water, and even if you try to keep your volumes low, that translates to a SHIT TON of leftover sodium carb once you evaporate your water. Then your supposed to acetone wash this, wich does effectively remove the spice from the sodium carb, but there is so much sodium carb it is hardly a wash, more of a PULL. and the exess sodium carb soaks up alot of acetone and doesnt release it when you try to pour off, it is still all clumpy and wet with acetone, so you are for sure losing some yield that way since its damn near impossible to get all the acetone out cause again the sodium carb just absorbes it, even if you put it on a coffe filter and wait for it to drip through it doesnt release it, it just holds it till it evaps..

THERE MUST BE A BETTER WAY TO FREEBASE THE FINAL PRODUCT!!

if im not mistaken armor, you have a tech for manual x-tallization with only a tiny amount of sodium carb? this is what i will be trying next time!

Keep at it people this is the way to go!!

Haven't known anyone else to attempt the process without a hitch, which is strange considering SWIM accomplished it on the first try. SWIM's leaning more in the direction of recommending Ice House's tek or a simple drytek. Drytek should work with vinegar, while Ice House's and my own may only work well with fumarates.

check

so i did try just evaping the acidic water, and doing that manual x method of yours and something interesting happend but i still dont understand the chemistry,

but i added water and sodium carb, and spread it out into a paste, dried it, then added just a few drops of water, and swirled them around a bit then poured the drops onto a glass tray just incase you know..

So after it dried i scaped it up and it basically turned my resin ball into some dry brown flakes, and it seemed to have gained some mass,
but when i checked the drops of water i poured off afer they had evaped, There were some mostly white semi yellow chrystals completely separate from/ on top of, what looked like exess sodium carb/yellow gunk, They were definetly nice xtals!!

So why did this happen, and how could we perhaps use it to get x-tals from this tech??

P.S i ended up acetone washing the flakes, and that yielded a resin ball just like the others..??