Well I was given a heads up by the author because I was heavily quoted throughout this book and he wanted me to maybe even write more. Well after I started reading it, I just could not do that, and had to revoke every remnant of what was my quote from the rough draft.

I'm in there as well he contacted me a few months back .
I'm interested to check it out but I don't want to pay to read it
At the moment especially for something that's not a final draft
. I was really hoping it was good .

The pdf is here in this thread.
I have not read it.
As a fan of science fiction, however, an allegorical novel about forbidden contact with entities from another realm in a near-future riven by social upheaval and draconian state control sounds awesome. But perhaps that's not this! I'll have to write it!

May I suggest that the author (if indeed there is a substantive single author...?) reconsider the shape of the work, in light of border-line plagiarism/alteration to quotes and the much-expressed dissatisfaction with the editing process?
That process must be free and fair.
The writer(s)/publishers must be clear regarding whether it is to be collaborative and what permissions they have to use other's words ...the Nexus seems a sharing place, great things can come of from the Next Us, no?
Profits shared transparently with CEL is a wonderful idea. Profits won through other's words and thought without transparency is ...very bad karma.
L

But it's not really fiction. It's based off of reports here (which are of course fictional, but written by people. You know). And it's also based on laws that exist in real life. If it were presented as a fictional book with forbidden contact with entities, I wouldn't mind.

Word. I was having some fun fantasizing about a novel I haven't written yet!

I'm confused... is this really what became of the CEL Handbook project? Because this is lightyears away from the sort of thing that I remember being outlined.

It is rather confusing...
As I pointed to above, the text in question is posted by Acolyte.
By its own admission it is a mish-mash about Spice and Aliens...
Not a CEL project, apparently, but meant to support CEL?
Perhaps this and the other thread should more properly reside in the Tavern?
L

I don't really know what this is about, I remember CEL being started while I was still a lurker but didn't really look into it.
In all honesty; unless the research is from a government sanctioned medical professional, I don't think it will leave a very big impact whether its 100% factual or fiction.

Research like the stuff being done on terminal patients and psychedelics will have a large impact. Government recognized religious movements like Santo daime will have a large impact. Books written by people who use the substance may present interesting views (I wouldn't know I haven't read it.) but in my honest oppinion it's not going to have a noticeable impact on the way the world view these things.

Which brings me to the main point of this post.

If someone's profiting from the words written by nexians, perhaps The Traveler should receive royalties to help out with the site or something similar? I see that bringing positivity to this message.

If a percentage of the proceeds go towards this site, that could create a positive impact; at least on the members here. From what I understand someone has quoted a lot of ideas and discussions from members here, and wrote a book about it which they're charging money for.
Forgive me if I'm mistaken I haven't read the whole thread thing yet.

It also seems there is some opposition from some of those quoted as being taken out of context, and the whole point of the book has strayed from what it was meant to be when it first started.
If a donation of the proceeds went to this site would you all feel better about the purpose and existence of this book, however out of context and misrepresented it may or may not be?

I haven't been involved with this at all so I don't have much or any say in the matter
I just feel this could be a solution where everyone benefits.

Thank you Electric.Sight, your sobriety is most appreciated.


All of your points are 100% valid.


Government and Medical research is the real path to legitimacy. No one will care, fact or fiction, what a drug forum says. Yet today, even a well educated person has no idea that Ayahuasca, and DMT, even exists!!! And this public ignorance is tremendously dangerous.

I have attempted to directly engage and keep the Traveler up to date for some months--yet have gotten no response (he's shy ). Under E.U. law, he is the true copyright holder of every post on this forum. I have tried my best to preserve the context and inform people of the use of their quotes as best I can. But with 105,000 words. Things get lost and mixed up; AND I CANNOT READ MINDS nor know when they have changed.

Regarding the money, I encourage all of you to ask Createspace.com to send you a free copy... It won't happen. I would be happy to send someone a free copy (and even attempted to do so back in November) BUT I need your name and address. Although I often get yelled at for even for asking.



I am not declaring this thesis to be a public position everyone supports.
It is merely a rational attempt to explore something phenomenally interesting to 85% of the general population. Science fiction is a vessel to carry the many brilliant ideas and experiences of this forum into the world on the back of philosophy, other forms of academic research, and yes--gasp--fantasy. IT IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM SETS OUT TO MAKE THIS SITE, OR IT'S MEMBERS, "LOOK CRAZY." This book is not against science, merely outside of it. Those who think any assertions made outside of Science are automatically ungrounded or crazy ought to read the first chapter of the book. As I said in the OP, any and all RATIONAL counter-arguments and feedback is be most welcome.


Sorry for such an unexpectedly explosive controversy; but how else do you share a book, beyond asking folks to read it?


all the best.

I'm reading it. I'll be posting detailed feedback, and criticisms of the context the book is written. Acolyte, I hope you still consider making some changes.

REEALLLY? Ooh if so that's not a cool law, copyright should be retained by the creator unless agreed otherwise. That's what's fair. I certainly don't agree to surrendering my copyright on my ramblings, no matter how nonsensical they may be! What does the agreement say when you sign up? Perhaps it should be changed to say that copyright resides with the poster but the poster gives the right for his post to remain on the forum indefinitely.

This issue came up and was publicly discussed and even debated when several members mass-deleted their posts. Please read the Privacy section if you need further clarification on this.

It may not be a representative handbook of CEL, but it is at least a nice expression of artistic creativity that also explains the injustices and tyranny of the war on drugs from a unique, Sci-Fi perspective.

I see why you people are upset; It's strange to use direct quotes of people on a forum.
Then again artistic freedom should be allowed to be and be given space to create. I think it ought to be tolerable and doesn't have to be a Handbook to represent CEL's ideals.
If anyone has a good idea s to what a good Handbook to represent CEL's ideals; Get creative.

As for Acolyte:
Could it be possible to settle with the people who are upset? Would there be a way that both parties can meet halfway?
If you would consider re-editing it before publishing it:
Why not base the story more loosely on factual reality and make it more fictitious? (allthough maintaining the essence)
You could remove actual names and actual quotes and replace them with fictitious ones that carry roughly the same meaning.
Would that be possible?

It would be entirely possible! This is what "public betas" are for!
I'm 100% open to ways that will rationally address people's concerns.

Thanks for notifying me of this legal change to the terms and conditions of registration. I remember the House episode but I wasn't told about this new policy, and there wasn't a policy when I signed up as I recall so I was working on commonly held implied terms. So, here's the deal.

Now that I have been personally informed of the change, I accept by continuing to post that from today 5th April 2011 this rule will apply to this and my future posts. The text you quoted is unclear on some matters that are important to me, as I don't know what open source means exactly as it isn't a form of copyright I deal with in my work, so for the remainder of this post while I assert my rights I will be continuing to post under the assumption that my posts are only allowed to be quoted on the internet by individuals and must not be put into print nor used for commercial reasons nor used by any other organisation to any greater extent than the work of any other published writer can be quoted without breaching copyright (e.g. you can quote a line of Einstein or whoever, but you can't quote a large amount such as a whole page or however much it is without permission). I don't know what 'open source' is exactly but I don't like the thought of anyone gaining the right to use my personal thoughts, so unfortunately I feel forced to limit my posts significantly from now on until I've learnt exactly what open source legally entails.

I joined long before the privacy statement was created, so anything I posted before its creation is not covered by this policy because there was no such agreement between myself and the DMT-Nexus neither when I joined nor until I was personally informed of the change. It's like how the bank has to send you a personal piece of correspondence every time they change their terms and conditions- they can't just post the change up on the bank noticeboard and expect you to have seen it. I joined under the commonly-held assumption by the vast majority of the public that I was not surrendering copyright, but was merely providing a licence for this particular forum that I was posting on to retain my posts on this particular forum. No licence was given for anything else without first obtaining my permission, so my posts before today's date cannot be used by any other organisation and cannot be printed or included in any publication outside of the forum to any greater extent than the work of any other published writer can be quoted without breaching copyright e.g. you can quote a line of Einstein or whoever, but you can't quote a large amount such as a whole page or however much it is without permission). That was the implied contract between myself and the DMT-Nexus. Should the DMT-Nexus decide to retain my posts prior to this date, that is acceptance of the implied contract I have just described applying to all my posts prior to today's date (the date I was personally informed of the policy change). If the DMT-Nexus chooses to no longer accept these terms, unfortunately they must delete all my posts prior to today's date.

Maybe the implied terms I described are exactly what open source means, I don't know, if they are then that's fine. But if open source is different, then I think the privacy statement should be changed to continue my implied terms instead, because people post very personal things on here and no doubt wish to retain their copyright to the fullest extent possible.

Ohayoco, I'm at the office now, and as such, was only able to skim through your post (I'll read it in its entirety when I get home). All I'll say for the moment is that I really hope you don't alter your posting habits based on this legalese modification. If someone ever wanted to come by the Nexus and scoop up your words for commercial appropriation, they would be able to do so. The visible shift in Nexus policy (by making official policy) doesn't really change anything with regards to that; it was intended more to give folks a heads up that by publishing their words on this forum, they are not necessarily guaranteed the ability to recall/remove those words.

With respect to commercial appropriation of your words; the Nexus most certainly won't and if your concerns are with outside entities, the Nexus doesn't have control over who may come through and misappropriate your words, so that doesn't strike me as being affected by this "change".

I dunno, my father, who has worked with closely computers for some 30+ years always said, whether it's email or IM or forums or just a web browser, always assume that anything you publish/put into the internet is available to everyone, everywhere, at anytime...and proceed accordingly.

Info on the Open Source Initiative (taken from programming)

Yeah man, you have to expect this whenever you write anything in public forums. It's just a common sense disclaimer.