I may need to delete this tomorrow, but wanted to start something and to do it here to pressure myself to complete it tomorrow.

I don't know where to begin. I have had one of the deepest, darkest, most self-incriminating breakthroughs of my entire life. 21 minutes in a blessing that was a personal hell.

All I can do is begin by saying I'm so sorry. And I'm sorry this is so dark. But even this feels like a fucking catch-22. Believe me, I know I'm fooling no one. I have no idea how to proceed or what the future holds. I felt very close to death tonight, complete with psychosomatic chest pain and a numb left arm. I'm not even sure why I'm bothering to attempt to write this.

A lifetime of bad habits, treating people poorly, neglecting people to protect myself, hell even "helping" people to prop myself up. Ridiculous. And, seriously wtf?

What a pathetic little attempt by a self-interested ego to SCREAM against the infinite dark. And hell, it's not just me, is it? I mean, string a bunch of these pathetic little screams together and you get oral tradition, hell eventually even high technology. What a fucking laugh! Not fooling anyone, eh?

The light is a lie. The dark trumps all. We hold onto our illusions.

Face or forget? Face = being very awake and experiencing every exquisite, painful moment. Forget = a smooth, seamless bliss until one day it just ENDS. But of course, no profound insight there, just perhaps a realizing at how profoundly little time is left.

Try to make the best of the time left to me? Whats the frakking point, right?

And, no matter how I proceed, or do not, there is no point or meaning. I talk about creating our own meaning. Sure, embrace an illusion. What else is there, right?

What is the point of being a self-interested ego screaming against the infinite dark?

Wow, I almost wish I had not been born. What a stupid thought.

This dose opened a deep well of despair and self-incrimination in my head. I don't really know what to do with it. For better or worse, I spend a lot of time in chat and there was a lot of good wisdom and support being offered to me, for which I am very grateful.

A most amazing experience that will take a long time to integrate.

Override your down feelings with the joy gained from the illumination received.
Fail now and ul just come back to try again - dont waste a lifetime - act now - its the only time there is.
Experiences come along that make one step back, no rather jump back in shock - use these hurdles as stepping stones.
I know my bad place - i have to overcome it at some stage - il try until i succeed - smiling because of what comes after.

Profound words of wisdom there <3 <3

If you quit now though, you'd have wasted all you've worked for. And whats the point in that?

When the darkness swallows the light
and the cerebelum sees not sunshine dappled forest floors
but horrifying spikes of gloom and gross
laughter turns from giggles
to screams
water turns to blood in streams
every fiber
each memory
tainted by this icky fucking mud
coating every cell
dragging the mind to hell
when this happens
the soul shrinks and shrivels
but I extend to you
a hand through the shadows
I have seen the darkness I have been it
it is in all of us it is all of us
I do not know you in the physical realm
but I see your precious soul
do not let it dehydrate
I am sending you love
I love you
and remember...now that you have seen
the darkest it can be
you must find the light
and be there for others when they need your love
I love you.

Pandora,

Those are some very profound and rare insights that I have not seen anyone ever speak of. I know them myself however.

What is the point, and what to do next? I don't know, ether (just kidding, either). In a way i'm very amazed that you're brain was able to come to that point of thinking because I don't think many people's do (the nexus community being the exception to the rule).

If the big bang theory is correct, we are nothing more than an evolution of bacteria. We are very complicated, but if such is, then your thoughts, bad habits, and way of life until now has been outside of your control. The physical results of living organisms are all created by the smallest blueprint that determine our biology for our entire lives. Our whole physical evolution is pre-determined. How much control does that really leave us?

Well, we can control our choices, but honestly if everything else is predetermined, our thinking must be to some extent too.

I responded to a post in the Nursery last night that is relevant. The result was this: ok, so now what?

I have the same questions too. Now that I know all that I know, what the f to do? Sure i'd like to create my own meaning, but how and in what way, and why? I didn't have answers for the other guy, and I don't for you either because I don't have this answer for myself. Its the million dollar question from the movie talladega nights. I don't have it, but I do have my experience and my opinions about it and a consciousness that to some extent can make choices. Maybe its all predetermined by our evolutionary biology, maybe its fate from god, maybe its got something to do with hyperspace.

If what we come to realize about life is true, then the deck was stacked to begin with. Fortunately, we have realized that, and if we choose, we can stop playing. But again, what to do now? Im going to say just experience things. Be as you are, know all you do, and take that with you at all times while you experience. Just be.

Napp

Sounds rough. Remember you are a very brave soul. A mad captain (or captainess) in the most engulfing of seas. Be proud of yourself. I can't relate to the depths you found, haven't even been to the other side with spice. But I do know that you are a traveler with courage, you got smacked down it sounds like. But don't run now.

Pandora, you'll be okay!

First off, from my experience chatting with you in the forums, you are in no way a selfish individual.

Secondly, I'm glad you're talking about this. The trip that has made me terrified to return to hyperspace was nearly identical to what you just described. It wasn't just introspective; it was incriminating. It showed me how much of a failure and sinner I am (and I don't even believe in sin!). I felt totally worthless afterward, as if I had just been judged by God (again, not something I believe in) and fell incredibly far from glory. It was humiliating and sad and I was to blame for it all. It was absolutely horrific. The most appropriate word I can describe it with is "harrowing." Another appropriate metaphor would be that I had "opened Pandora's box," which is all the more appropriate for you

But, good news! I've completely recovered and I've addressed some of the real life issues that the experience made me face. The totality of the experience has been gradually fading from my memory. The feeling it gave me has completely vanished; I now only have my journal notes and the few visuals I can remember to remind me. The same will happen to you. You'll move on and it will have only improved your life in the long run. The abyss that you witnessed will fade from your memory and you'll become more rooted in this glorious/hilarious/sad/twisted world we call reality.

However, I haven't touched spice since. So... let me know how your next session goes, if you have one.

This has happened to me. I've unexpectedly spent ~half an hour on the other side. I experienced what felt like a heart attack, left arm felt totally numb. I knew I was still alive, so I guessed this was just the spice and my body showing me one of the many possible outcomes of my future.
Yes, the inevitable death. How will it end, nobody knows. Cancer, heart attack, etc. A common way to depart for our species.

Looking back on this experience that I had, well over a year ago, I think it was just my bodies way of telling myself to take it easy, be better on my body.
And I have...

On many occasions my lungs would actually get stabbing pains while in hyperspace which disabled my breathing for the entire experience.
How THAT is possible...I can't even possibly imagine. It must have been a hallucination, but I was there, unable to breathe, I remember...

Our fears, our negativity, the darkness we loom, and our bad habits, it all has a profound effect on ourselves [and those around us] and we are the ones who project and inspect hyperspace. The experience itself is the transformation of who we are.

I'm not sure what this experience will mean for you in the future, as we are all different. You will know, though. Hyperspace has it's way of teaching the self that it is....



Almost every single one of my trips I was left completely bitchslapped by this "self-incriminating" aspect that you describe.
All the selfishness, all the insanity, all the manipulation, all the addiction, everything that I now see as morally not OK was shoved in my face until I was no longer who I was.

I was simply a product of our society, brainwashed, unsure how to deal and mirroring those around me. Just like everybody else. Slowly we are chiseled into place. Letting go of everything we once were and standing naked in this moment. I don't know why we are here. I don't know what the fuck this universe is. I never will.

Don't stress, Pandora. All I'm saying here is I can totally relate in my own little way. I don't think you should delete this post. Looking forward to talking with you soon..........







From the macrocosmic perspective, we can see the point to what we are as a whole is growth. Or something like that, right?
From the individual perspective, there are all kinds of points that can manifest.
For me, the point when working with these things is maintaining the heightened state of awareness I have developed over the years of praxis. I personally find this kind of perceptual alteration useful in coping and understanding my reality. It feels good (even if it is insanely intense at times), it's intellectually stimulating, it's good for my nerves and entire nervous system, and it reveals a completely different aspect of our existence.

The mystery is beckoning. I, myself, refuse to sit back and not participate. <3

i have been there. i have compassion. it is a part of you forever...never to be separated and set aside to simply recall and ponder upon.

the dark does trump all. you must allow it to trump every single atom of you....to consume you and become you and digest you and shit you out. it is only through this absolute complete annihilation that you will discover the greatest gift DMT/ayahuasca/anything can ever offer:

FOLLOW THE LIGHT OUTWARD OR FOLLOW THE DARKNESS INWARD- THEY WILL BOTH MEET UP AT A CERTAIN POINT. THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME.

if there is a balance to the great mystery, a 'yin' to a 'yang' that exists in the cosmos, it must surely come to be that the highest high you can touch will only ever be directly proportionate to the lowest low you can courageously descend to.

you've broken new ground in the dark depths of your soul. i hope you're ready for your next elevator ride upwards..

with the most profound love and gratitude!!

I'm in a bad place today. I know I just need time. All of this feels like the exact opposite of what you wrote antrocles - I bathed in the love and light and last night was payback time. I see nothing but darkness, despair and continuing dysfunction everywhere I look. The future is so grim it's no longer worth fighting for, trying for or waiting for. I am seized by the most toxic kind of inertia today. I cannot even get out of bed.

I'm crying a bit less than last night, so that's something.

I am sensitive to feelings and pain and I know others are too, so I will make a point blank statement that I have no desire or even enough energy to contemplate hurting self or anything like that. But my dreams have been crushed, sucked away. And they were such, little, (I thought) humble, unambitious dreams to try to make the world better. I was shown they are not even dreams, just ego screams. So pointless to even try it seems.

To go off of antrocles's point of 'yin' and 'yang', I have always seen it like this. Even though the 'yin' is blackness, in its deepest core it has an eye of brightness. And even though the 'yang' is brightness, in its deepest core it has an eye of darkness. The symbol was meant to be like this, to show that light guides the darkness, and darkness guides the light.

You can't live in one without embracing the other, it is after all the totality of the universe.

The only thing that kept me from being scared away from spice permanently, was being able to sit back and digest what happened to me, to say "okay, that was madness, that was my death. I've come back from the brink of the abyss, sure I'm scarred a little bit, but it has shown me what is there, and I can now say I'm a little bit stronger because of it, more prepared for whatever the future may hold. Even if it is my death that's coming, I can embrace it for what it is. But until then, I'm going to enjoy what I have hear now, no longer in fear of the darkness."

Again, I laugh as I must apologize for the ensuing darkness - the irony of this pointlessness is excruciating in a way:

I WISH I was scared today. Hell, I could smoke DMT right now. I really just don't care. Why be scared? I almost wish the end would hurry up and get here. Waiting and degrading, decaying and grinding more every year . . .. damn.

Yesterday it was a means to an end, a catalyst to personal growth. It instilled me with love and fear. Today, I feel so at one with the darkness and the meaninglessness it is hard to move. Why should I have fear? I guess I have a little or I'd be suicidal to be brutally honest, which I recognize as a gross overreaction. And yet, wow, 43 years looms and the truth is given what I have done and accomplished with my life and relationships, I would have made an IDEAL volunteer to do the work in the Fukishima Nuclear plant in Japan.

But, why should I even care about screwing things up? About hurting people? About flushing possibilities and potentials? There is NO real reason. All the reasons that feel/felt so passionately real have been revealed to be a lie and a sham. I am left at my starting point (before the first hit of DMT) - in middle aged existential despair it seems.

antrocles claims it's the next step forward. Honestly, it feels like a TREMENDOUS step back. And now that I'm back here I no longer have the frantic, panicked energy that brought me to DMT in the first place. I just have 20-40 years to wait. Then I join the truly infinite. LMFAO!

I can relate to the feeling of pointlessness and the meaninglessness of things. It may be the next step forward in a lifelong journey, but the fact that you are recognizing the truth is what is important. You have realized reality. Its tough, but you've done it. Maybe harder to deal with then actually achieve it... I think now is the time to take a look at your quote in your sig.

"Even if nothing lasts and everything is lost, there is still the intrinsic value of the moment." - The now.

Be in the now, but leave your mind, thoughts, and any preconceptions out of it. Maybe check out some Eckhart Tolle if you have not done so.

There is much despair that we can all dwell on if we choose to do so, the people currently in power over this world is what gets me the most right now. The one thing that keeps me going is knowing that I'm doing right by what I feel. I don't mean to get all CT on you guys, but the end/A new beginning is very near, at least I think so. And in these closing moments the world seems to be plunging into chaos economically/socially/personally/etc., and maybe we should take the discordian viewpoint and realize the apparent order that seems to be disorder and confusion. Accept fate and embrace change, it is what has gotten us through in the past and it is what will for whatever the future holds. The only thing to fear is fear itself, because it can hold us back from the truth. What the psychedelic experience and meditation practices teach us is to give in/let go of what is holding us down, for it is the only way up, otherwise you will be left to wallow in your own misery and despair.

Pandora.... WOW. I'm shocked by this dark experience as AFOAF last night too had a very dark and destructive mushroom experience. (AFOAF will be creating a post when more time is available) Surpisingly, a LOT of what you have brought up was also present in AFOAF's experience.....

Will AFOAF can't relate to the power that is DMT, AFOAF feels they can relate a bit to your experience. Will AFOAF will describe the annihilating experience in more detail in said coming post, they would like to stick to the positive. They learned, bottom line, while the world may be a fucked up place, dysfunctional, corrupt.... there is ALWAYS a contrast of equal proportions... love, joy, genuine caring for another person... all there and ALWAYS there. (this was realized from a recent reading with Alan Watts speach on "Nothingness".... )

The classic saying goes "You cant get something from nothing".... but Alan puts this into perspective and instead says "You cant get something WITHOUT nothing". AFOAF was confused about this but now realizes.... you cant have a wave with just a crest... you also need a trough to form that crest... to make it seen through the use of contrast. So taking that into view, you can't have good without the bad... and you cant have the bad without the good......

So will you may be looking at dark evil right now.... remember.... there is ALWAYS a goodness to contrast that evil. Life truly is a roller coaster of experiences... emotions... triumphs... defeats.... but whenever a SWIMMER is down, just remember there IS a love equal to that darkness... so to help counter act the darkness I extent a sincere, caring, loving energy

By the way, you say you feel that this was a tremendous step back... if you think of life as a wave again... and you are currently at rock bottom... even if you go back, it is still going up the wave.... up to love and your dreams once again.

Hope you all the best,

ElusiveMind

Wow, that was one dark passage!

"What is the point of being a self-interested ego screaming against the infinite dark?"

When you put it that way - especially after an experience like the one you just had - you've pretty much answered your own question:
There IS no point! But the flip side of that is that the visions of darkness are just as unreal as the beautiful visions. Both are to be transcended.

I have been feeling stuck in a rut the last few weeks - though not nearly as exhaustingly deep as the one you just went through - and ended up reading the following which has helped me inch my way out...

"Struggling with our inner enemies makes them stronger and greater in number. This is not the way to defeat them.

Until and unless we learn to master our inner enemies they will continue to thrive and they will open the way for negative forces outside of ourselves to invade us.

These enemies can only be mastered through mercy and love; therefore we work to cultivate these. When negativity arises in our mind-stream, we are mindful of its rising and immediately neutralise it with love and compassion.

This is the way of the Bodhisattvas, those who unceasingly work for the Buddhahood of all beings."

-Thogme Zangpo

Hi Pandora. I don't even have to take a trip that is dark to feel like that sometimes.

"What a pathetic little attempt by a self-interested ego to SCREAM against the infinite dark. And hell, it's not just me, is it? "

No it is not just you. I am there right along side you sometimes. I have those times too... self interested ego... screaming 'hell no' to the infinite dark... and then the perversity of perversity... wanting the infinite dark to sweep over me and take me away from all of this injustice and horror that seems to grow with each passing day in society.

I can be one dark dude no doubt.

One reason that I trip infrequently is that I have to be careful of the power of the spice and what is revealed to me. The last couple trips have been glorious sorties toward 'the light'. But hyperspace can truly terrify the hell out of me, and it can leave me with revelations of my own injustices in my own thinking and actions.

My second trip (after 28 years of no psychedelics) with 'ruemosa' last June took me thorough a journey giving me a huge magnifying glass with which to magnify many of my character defects... leaving me feeling a lot of anxiety and shame. It also revealed to me the source of some of this shame. It was a mixed bag, but I am grateful for the experience. Subsequent 'integration' has left me feeling at peace with it most of the time.

In the end, the great creator (I am not religious), gave me my puny little ego so that I could live against all the forces that attempt to prevent me from living. I am thankful for that ego sometimes, and sometimes 'IT' needs to be crushed when it runs amok and I consequently hurt people.

Sometimes I wish that I could be more like my cat and 'just be' without my 'grand central mind' trying to take a perfectly good day and making it into a mental cluster fuck.

Can you relate?

Love you my friend...

stepping into the darkness - while its disguised as light - a tricky beast as best
light/growth doesnt cause unhappy feelings
why deny growth - step back into hyperspace - i doubt your experience will repeat itself.

that

My small insignificant 2 cents is to take a break from the
Stuff for a while . What you describe sounds far to
Sinister and negative and serious . Give it a rest focus on
Good things friends family chop wood play an instrument
While the dark stuff is important for growth and expansion
There is a point of simply self torture with minimal productive
Resonation. We can only take so much of it before its a feedback loop.