obliguhl, I think you're wrong. Maybe some people seek out pain for various reasons but I don't think that this is actual pleasure for them.

Either way you are talking about letting everyone do whatever they want because you don't want to judge anyone, but in the end if you allow this, and not everyone is thinking for the benefit of all, then you will have very unpleasant consequences to deal with, as fractal elaborated on. I think one has to get beyond this point of thinking that everyone has the right to do whatever they like. There has to be the limitation that it must not cause more harm than good.

Take a look at this spiral dynamics chart / AQAL chart -

obliguhl, what you are applying is here called a pitfall of the green meme - excessive relativism! Not everything is or should be relative if we want a working community, a working relationship or a working anything.

Anyway this is one way to categorize people into a hierarchy of consciousness-levels that apply for different areas of life as expressed in the quadrants, developed by Ken Wilber AFAIK. I'm not saying I agree with this, but it#s certainly an interesting approach and deserves a good look IMO.

Oh, i'm all for working communities and cultures. By all means, bring it on!!
I've certainly got an interest in keeping a community on the same page and I also share the values you call "higher", and I'm trying to defend them through action.

But, that does not mean, that there can't be other communitys with other, socially accepted values. If i want to unpack the slippery slope here: We all know that seeing yourself as "higher" can promote elitism, nationalism even facism and racism.

I would never think of someone who doesnt share my cultural values as lower. They should leave me alone in cases of conflict. Too bad that this isn't possible any longer on this planet. I like the hunter-gatherer band model:

A partnership society of equal members. If conflicts arise, they just split.
In our wider societys, it's more like we are forced into this hate culture with the police, the nationstate and war. I think these people are WRONG...i think their culture is rubbish.

But what do i know? Nothing. My self doubt is enough to justify the existence of cultural diversity.

ElusiveMind...
Just look after yourself, and others... If you want someone else around to share life with, dont end up with the wrong person because of lonelyness. It is a trap that keeps one from your true love. If your look after yourself with a good ethic and karma, you will blossom and believe me you wont have to do a thing. That 1 in a million person will find you. They will spot you a mile away actually. Just be patient and have fun and love yourself and life, the rest just happens. Even one arm midget, cross-dressing, polo playing circus acrobats find a match, nevermind the lessor freaks amoungst us. Just do it for love and not for the wrong reasons and spot the parasites and U'll come out on tops either way..

In my view, I think this is just the beginning stages to becoming One. As the comedian Russel Peters put it in a skit...
(Very funny skit in my opinion, and it adds a little humor in the thread )



The point of this it to realize that while different conflicts with societies, cultures, etc are prominent right now... and yes I too feel that our "culture" is in the crapper right now... but it seem almost inevitable that we all become One eventually... maybe not in our lifetime (sad I know) but it will happen.

You can't "split apart" anymore as there is always someone around you.... the world is SMALL now, we see that on a daily basis when mail from Europe can make it to North America in an overnight air flight while before it would take months by boat to make it. Or even look at the internet.... INSTANT ACCESS to ANYTHING! Hell, im typing this message now and people ALL around the world can see it. Slowly yet surely, we are becoming One.

Now, weather this Oneness is going to be "good" from our point of view today...who knows. We could all be hardcore capitalists all interested in a quick buck by investing in war... OR we could be equally peaceful, respective, etc, etc.

So ultimately, while these societies may be "widening" right now... I view it as converging all to a single point.


@Dudeonthecouch

Very true words. I have a couple friends who got tied up for a while for various reasons... one of them because they were lonely, and they ALL were worse off. They even admitted it after the fact after I told them multiple times why before that. Bottom line is, as many people on this thread have said...

NUMBER 1 - Be happy with yourself first!

Very true as I witnessed some friends try to do a juggling act between making themselves happy and their partner and it doesn`t work what so ever. Another point often seen is:

NUMBER 2 - Be patient...

Very true for almost everything in life... of course there is a fine line though attached to being patient which has to do with caring or not caring... critical that it too is balanced as "caring" too much will lead to rash decisions and not caring will lead to nothing.

All in all, liking the discussions and advice,
So many thanks,

ElusiveMind

What age range are you running with? I live on a college campus, but I am older (late 20s...) so tend to click with older peeps anyway... But... I have noticed this a lot in the younger (<23) crowd of females but drastically less so in the older ones I have encountered... maybe it's a maturity thing? That is not to say there are not exceptions; I am friends with 18yo girl that is light years beyond me in terms of maturity and spiritual awareness, that I would date in a second if it didn't make me feel like a creeper. I also know some peeps in the 35+ crowd that are just as shallow and deluded as you describe. But, I see this in men, too.

I do relate to you on platonic feelings and sexual attraction seeming unattainable at the same time but, I think this has to do more with some deep seeded emotional/childhood trauma issues I have going on than a concrete truth. Once I overcome these, a real relationship could blossom.

This is 100% true in my experience. The days that I am out-n-about with a positive view of myself, I make eye contact everywhere I go and smiles are reciprocated, conversations come naturally and never feel awkward or inappropriate. The days that I am feeling a bit self-conscious or negative about myself, it's like no one will even look at me, or just look the other way when I try to be friendly; attempts at conversations receive one word replies or generic one-liners...

Forgive me if this has been mentioned I haven't read the whole thread.I met my girlfriend on www.plentyoffish.com . trust me man there is someone for everyone and the internet makes it pretty painless to find someone specific .