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LSD compared to LSA... Options
 
timothydeez
#1 Posted : 3/15/2011 2:07:34 AM

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SWIM has had many positive experiences with LSD in the past. He recently came across HBWR extraction teks and was very intrigued.

A few questions...
-How do the effects of LSA compare to LSD - is it as good?
-What's the deal with it potentially making you sick?
-Any suggestions of good HBWR seed suppliers, I browsed the supply section but didn't find anything...(and of course I can't post in there yet Sad )
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MMPA
#2 Posted : 3/15/2011 3:00:42 AM

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LSA is nowhere near comparison to LSD. LSA is very chillax and laid back whereas LSD is more of a mind-bending colorful and introspective experience.

LSA is a nice stroll in the park.
LSD is an Indiana Jones Adventure.

The potential for LSA to make you sick is because of the way it comes. LSA is usually contained within HWBR and Morning Glory seeds which also happen to contain some cyanide components (not in lethal amounts but in amounts enough to affect you) which is why people commonly get very nauseous when consuming the seeds. The LSA itself is not sickening.

Suppliers? Dunno, you can purchase them on ebay and they'll work, just be sure to get the hawaiian strain, not the ghana or other strain.
 
jamie
#3 Posted : 3/15/2011 3:48:58 AM

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I dunno what you concider a stroll in the park, but a full dose of fresh morning glory seeds was anything but that. It was the most visionary experience I have had with any lysergic, including LSD, on par with oral DMT and psilocin. There was uncomfortable constriction at the onset but it did not last long. The mental effects were extremely pronounced and with eyes closed I was literally flying through full color visionary worlds with ancient looking pyramids and glyphs. Other times though with old seeds I didnt anything near that. I think alot of people have old seeds that have degraded to a degree. Hoffman found LSH in fresh morning glories, not just LSA.

Technically LSH is an "LSA" in that it is a lysergic acid amide..but when most refer to "LSA" they refer to one compound known as LSA which is apparently mostly a sedative.

LSA and LSH both can make one sick as well on they're own, it's not just due to other things in the seeds. Both are potent vasoconstrictors, though there are other compounds in the seeds.

I remember reading somewhere that Hoffman didnt mention LSH much because he thought it had alot of potential and was so similar to LSD (other than that you cant dose it higher and higher like you can with LSD), and he didnt want to bring too much attention to LSH becasue he wanted it to stay legal for future theraputic use, unlike LSD which was scheduled. I dunno how true that is though, I dont remember where I saw that.

If you want something that you can dose really high safely like you can with LSD though, I would stick with LSD. LSH is dangerous at large doses due to constriction.
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timothydeez
#4 Posted : 3/15/2011 12:28:56 PM

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Oh absolutely, LSD is by far my first choice. However, cost and availability has led me to explore other options as well. So from what you are saying LSH > LSA and LSH comes from morning glory?
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Lavos
#5 Posted : 3/15/2011 2:39:15 PM

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If you are looking for something to stand in for your lsd use (lucky dog) then I would suggest reading this thread here

LSH and LSA are apparently quite different, though I'm not experienced myself. I ate a few packs of MG's once and it was nice, but subtle, the walk in the park version of the LSA. But I've read more than 1 account where a proper dose of LSA via MG or HBWR seeds left people amazed and in awe.

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timothydeez
#6 Posted : 3/15/2011 11:28:36 PM

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thanks lavos. thats just what I was looking for. any recommendations for a good HBWR supplier?
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Lavos
#7 Posted : 3/16/2011 12:08:01 AM

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Eh, I'm not at all certain, but I plan on using ktbotanicals when ready, if someone has ordered before (anywhere) with good results please inform.
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The path of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. -William Blake

Lavos is a fictional character, a dream inside a dream. Don't take what he says to be true or representational of reality in any known form. He is inspired by pure fantasy.
 
timothydeez
#8 Posted : 3/16/2011 3:04:42 AM

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Another slightly different question... Any recommendations as to LSD trip enhancers? SWIM has taken 5-HTP with LSD before and he thoroughly enjoyed it. According to Lavos's link, there are many interesting "trip enhancers" out there. Any specific suggestions?
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DiMiTriX
#9 Posted : 3/16/2011 10:47:10 PM

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some people eat 2-3 stramonium seeds to give some plus euphoria asaik but i don't rguess it,it could be dangerous
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Pet
#10 Posted : 3/17/2011 6:44:50 AM

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Alienthings.com is a good supplier of HBWR with cheap seeds and fast service. They are authentic Hawaiian strain, and I've ordered from them many times over the years with consistent quality.

HBWR is my favorite psychedelic of all time and I've had the most meaningful of all my trips from them, not the most intense, but the most meaningful and memorable. I've shared them with many friends throughout the years and have come to find out that they work differently for different people. This is the main reason I believe they are not a mainstream psychedelic. While some people like myself experience a full on psychedelic experience with ego disintigration and visuals and only mild stomach ache, others only get a mild sedative effect from them. Still other people experience no mental effects but just get very sick and have a miserable time. However, if you're one of the lucky ones who gets strong psychedelic effects from the seeds, you can rest assured knowing you will get them every time you ingest good seeds. I know this because I've had different friends eat the same batch of seeds with vastly different results, so I know the variation isn't due to seed potency. So, I'd say it's worth it to try HBWR once to see if they work. Start with 3-4 seeds and if they don't work the first time, they probably won't work with subsequent attempts.

I haven't done LSD, but if I were to compare HBWR to mushrooms, I'd say they have a stronger body high (tingling sensations), are more sedating, are more lucid and analytical in nature, and have fewer visuals. The biggest difference is that while shrooms have more visual/audio sensory distortions, HBWR is more of a mental trip in that it is strong enough to cause significant ego loss while still being clear headed enough for deep introspection and self analysis. This ability for self analysis and manifestation of subconscious thoughts is what makes it my psychedelic of choice. The trip also lasts a couple hours longer and has a stronger afterglow than shrooms, very similar to LSD from what I've read. 4 seeds feels about equivilant of 1.75g dried mushrooms in intensity, though ofcourse the trips are drastically different.
 
Eternal_LVX
#11 Posted : 3/18/2011 5:30:33 AM

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SWIM has eaten HBWR seeds and had an amazing trip. There were some stomach issues involved. LSD is different and deciding which is better is up to the individual. LSD = no nausea

SWIM is very curious about MG seeds and has not taken them. SWIM has read a lot of teks but nothing satisfying out there. Seems like even with the CWE and alcohol tincture, there is still nausea. SWIM drank a little bit of the CWE and pretty much instantly felt sick. Took a prescription strength nausea pill and it went away. SWIM was too afraid to continue because there were no more naseau pills (Zophran, Promethazine) but now has a script of them. SWIM is hoping to try the MG seed smoothie with the pills to see if that works.

Anyone out there used an A/B method for LSA extraction? Or the everclear method? SWIM is thinking about just eating seed powder with nausea pills.
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dreamer042
#12 Posted : 3/18/2011 2:32:26 PM

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BathtubSkyPirate
#13 Posted : 3/18/2011 4:43:21 PM

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For what it's worth, 3 teks i found on the interwebs:
Quote:
HBWR/MG EXTRACTION I
4-32 HBWR’s or 100 to 800 MGs (comparable to 1-8 hits of of LSD)
standard lemon juice in the fruits and vegetable section or juice a damn lemon
Peppermint oil (optional) for LSH conversion. (theoretical)
reusable coffee filter.
jar or drinking glass.
some type of juice, Kool aid or sugar water
coffee grinder

Step 1: Get your seeds http://www.iamshaman.com...2&ProductCode=HHB-50 Don’t forget to let them know you want the hawaiian strain not the ghana.

Step 2: Grind your seeds in the coffee grinder till they are powdered. Listen for the sound of the grinder. I shake the grinder as it grinds, to get all the seeds grinded.

Step 3: If using HBWR’s. Add enough lemon juice to cover and a little more to keep the powder liquified after powder absorbs the moisture. The ciric acid in the lemon juice coverts the basic LSA alkaloids in to a more water soluble, food safe citric salt form. If Using MG’s your gonna need to make a solution of 1 part lemon juice to 2 parts distilled water. Add Enough solution to fill a couple inches above the seed powder. You may need to add more solution as your powder absorbs the moisture. Make sure you get it soupy. Add a few drops of peppermint oil to your soaking seed solution to convert your LSA citric salts into LSH citric salts

Step 4: Shake or stir the solution frequently and let soak for 30min.

Step 5: If using HBWR’s. Add a few ounces of juice or sugar water. If using MG’s just strain. You want enough juice to take a decent shot with. to little and it will be bitter. To much and you will have to drink more liquid then you have to, adding to the extention of unwanted tastes. If Using MG’s you should add sugar to the solution after you strain it to make it into a lemon aid.

Step 6: Shake or stir the solution then pour through a reusable coffee filter. You will need to stir and scrape the bottom of the filter to allow the juice to filter through. the powder tends to clog the filter taking longer to filter out. Discard seed mush when filtered and drink up. If using MG’s. You will need to strain through a baking strainer (the metal screen type you use to sift flour. Then strain through the reusable coffee filter.)

This is the most effective and simplest of all the organic natural psychedelics to produce. I have used 16 seeds and am graduating up to 20 next trip. This extraction is effective, clean, safe and guaranteed.

WARNING!!!: DO NOT MIX LSA/LSH WITH ALCOHOL. THE DEHYDRATION OF THE LSA/LSH, POISON/MEDICINE CAUSES A NEGATIVE REACTION WITH THE DEHYDRATING QUALITIES OF THE ALCOHOL. LEADING TO EXCESSIVE VOMITING IN DISCHARGE OF THE ALCOHOL AND INGESTED LSA/LSH.

*LSH (d-lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide) theoretically produces a more visual response.


Quote:

HBWR/MG EXTRACTION II
15 medium doses

HBWR: To dose, you don’t have to remove all the shell, but just take a pocket knife and scrape all the “dark-brown” stuff off until the seed is completely a “creme” color.

Items you will need:
128 HBWR seeds (No hulls); seeds only. Or 3,500 MG seeds.

A 50ml liquor bottle. These are the small ‘airplane’-sized ones. It should state 50ml on it.
A quantity of non-polar solvent. Coleman’s White gas is perfect.
190 proof Everclear, or Vodka. Ethanol. (Bacardi 151)
A small funnel comes in handy.
A couple small jars with good lids.
Some coffee filters.



Extraction Instructions:

Grind the seeds to a powder in a coffee grinder. Place the powder into a small jar and pour in enough of the White gas to fully cover the seeds. You can’t really use too much, but leave enough room so it shakes well. Screw on the lid and shake well for a few minutes. Let it sit for an hour or so, shaking every so often. Shaking is good.

Pour the seed / solvent solution through a coffee filter and let it drain. Putting the coffee filter into a funnel first works well. The solvent is no longer needed but can be re-used, so save it. Spread out the seed mush on the coffee filter which it is in, on a plate or something, and let the seeds fully dry out. You should smell no solvent when it’s fully evaporated. It may take a couple of hours. Don’t breathe the solvent fumes, if you can help it.

Once the seeds are fully dried place the powder into a clean small jar, with a good tight fitting lid. Fill the 50ml liquor bottle with your Ethanol (this is to measure it) and then dump that amount into the small jar with the seed powder. Shake well. This should sit for 3 days and shake it whenever you think of it.

Okay 3 days have passed, it’s almost time. Again, stick a coffee filter in a funnel and then pour the Ethanol / Seed solution into the filter. Let it drain thoroughly. Once it’s close you can squeeze out excess alcohol, but be careful not to break the filter. You can now discard the seeds, as the good stuff is in the alcohol solution that’s left.

Now pour the solution into the 50ml liquor bottle and let it sit for a couple of hours. Any seed powder remaining in the solution will settle to the bottom. Once it has, pour off the alcohol, rinse the seed crap out of the bottle, and pour the alcohol solution back in. Add enough of the clean alcohol to fill the bottle and you’re done. You now have 50ml of drinkable alcohol containing the extract from 150 HBWR seeds, which should be a yellowish, clear liquid, that looks much like tequila.

Normal dosage of HBWR is 5-12 seeds, MG about 200-400 seeds and it’s easy to measure. You can either get an oral syringe at any drug store that has a 1-5ml gradated gauge on the side, or use measuring spoons. 1tsp=5ml of liquid. 1ml of the ‘tincture’ = 3 seeds. I’ve found that 3ml of the liquid works very well. Mix with water, or anything else.

This method works very well, is easy to dose, easy to prepare, and you should not experience any nausea. Also, because the LSA’s are extracted they take way less longer to start working. Expect to feel the effects within an hour.

Keep your little bottle in the fridge. Heat is bad for all tryptamines.
Something to note: You can evaporate off the alcohol and you will be left with the alkaloids which you can put into gel caps etc. But, this is harder to dose, etc. I’ve found the alcohol method very easy and precise.


Quote:
HBWR/MG EXTRACTION III
Materials: blender, funnel, filter paper, petroleum ether or lighter fluid, methanol (wood alcohol), glass jar, Pyrex baking dish


Grind Morning Glory or Hawaiian Baby Wood Rose seeds in a blender until they are a fine powder, and spread them out to
dry. Soak the powder with lighter fluid or petroleum ether. Cap the container to avoid fumes, and don’t smoke nearby, or
you’ll be very sorry.

In a well-ventilated area (neither ether nor lighter fluid are good for you), filter the solution through filter paper in a
funnel. Discard the filtrate (the liquid).

Dry mash completely.

Soak mash in methanol (wood alcohol) for 2 days. Be careful - its vapors are poisonous and may be explosive.

Filter, and save the filtrate.

Soak the mash in methanol again a further 2 days.

Filter. Discard the mash, save the filtrate.

Pour both filtrates into a large, flat dish and evaporate in the absence of direct sunlight. Sunlight will break down the
LSA. Preferably, perform ALL procedures in a cool, well-ventilated place away from sunlight.

After evaporation, a yellow gum will remain in the dish.
Scrape it up.

To dose on the LSA, add some harmless filler (starch, flour, milk sugar) to the gum until it is not sticky. Put in gelatin
capsules or take as is. 30 g Morning Glory seeds or 15 Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds should make a goodly trip, so
adjust dosage accordingly.

If you want to turn LSA into LSD, you can [see below], but it’s MUCH more difficult and VERY unsafe.


 
timothydeez
#14 Posted : 3/18/2011 5:21:30 PM

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i am intrigued by the lemon juice tek. how well will these combat the nausea?
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Eternal_LVX
#15 Posted : 3/18/2011 8:01:58 PM

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thanks for the replies! SWIM thinks there should be a more comprehensive section on LSA extraction. But then again, this site is about Spice... haha. SWIM appreciates people posting about it though. SWIM has been looking all over the place for more information about this process.

From what SWIM understands, there are too main factors that make LSA ineffective. Light.. and heat...

Not sure about all this stuff about peppermint. There's really not much proof this is doing anything but the way SWIM sees it... what could it hurt to put peppermint in there? The worst that can happen is a nice minty flavor.. lol
SWIM keeps hearing about mint and rum... hmm... Psychedelic Mojitos? Ohhh yes, sounds amazing.

From what SWIM understands, the pesticide things is mostly a myth and it's something in the seed itself that causes nausea. Does naphta really get this shit out? heard of people doing the NP wash and still getting nausea... why is this?

SWIM read one report of a girl who drank CWE and then loaded up on nausea pills and had a badass time. cant find the link

Terrence Mckenna said his first psychedelic experience was off Morning Glories and just ground them up and ate them in applesauce. He was an advocate of growing your own.

All statements by Eternal_LVX are fictional and completely insane and should not be taken seriously. Do not attempt any of these procedures without the supervision of your own eternally divine soul.

"The real secret of magic is that the world is made of words, and that if you know the words that the world is made of you can make of it whatever you wish." - Terrence McKenna

My first breakthrough experience!
 
 
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