Why do you still insist that there is a potential for abuse/addiction with dmt when ALL of the evidence suggests otherwise?

while i agree that there is a huge trivialization of the mary jane experience nowadays, i don't think anything like that could happen with dmt. The tiny amount of ignorant people smoking a puff now and then for kicks will eventually do a higher dose soon enough, and get a proper ass kicking. I just can't see kids smoking a roll of changa on the sofa while watching mtv, eating cheese doodles, and talking about the latest lil wayne album.

Capitalism wouldn't dare to try and fit that wild pheonix into a package..it would only be digging itself a deeper hole in the ground by doing so..which is exactly why it pushes so hard against these plants

DMT has thousands of years of experience. Just because one group uses it different then another group doesn't mean any is better or worse.

That being said there are probably a lot of idiots out there who will smoke dmt and get nothing out of it except some nice visuals. But who cares? I think that's half the fun. I wouldn't use psychedelics if I didn't consider them fun and or interesting. I personally don't believe in any of the spiritual stuff connected with their use so that entire way of using them doesn't apply to me.

I didnt't mean physical addiction neccesarily. Probably the word addiction is a very sensitive one to use when talking about DMT. I also consider it a most valuable and sacred thing, but then again, what do we know? Heroin and cocaine were once labeled and packaged as safe medicine for children and considered extremely safe. I'm not insisting that dmt IS addictive, all the evidence seems to indicate the opposite, but do we know all the facts about chronic DMT use? just giving the benefit of the doubt.



Don't you think anything like that could happen to DMT ever? Definitely not right now, but how about in 10 years from now to say something? A societies conception of value and reality change noticeable over time. Marihuana is a good example. Could you possibly conceive a stoner culture in the 1890's? If we go back 150 years on time i believe that the experience of smoking weed was times more intense than it is nowadays, even with the selective breeding and potent strains that we have today, because it was completely alien to mainstream America, just like dmt is today. The experience has mellowed down historically as our collective consciousness has expanded by means of using these plants on one level, but also with the technological progress, increase of population, and whatnot. (Not meaning to say smoking weed is trivial in every case, that is not my point). Try to imagine and compare an average kid from the 1800's to an average kid from the 2000's, and you will see how different they would seem. The complexification of stimuli, the widespread of information, and also complex novel experiences like DMT shape our reality and make it change over time. My point is that DMT could be co-opted by power EVENTUALLY. I don't like to put my hopes in some intrinsec quality of dmt that would keep it away from evil hands.



I disagree. Ayahuasca brews have thousand of years of experience on a ritualistic shamanic context. Vaporizing freebase DMT in a modern late capitalist highly scientific society has barely 40 years of experience if so. Even with the similarity of experience and the fact that we are using the same molecule, refination of the chemical and the historic context make me think of them as different experiences. But i do think there's value in how one uses the experience. I don't see any problem in using DMT recreationally other than getting your ass kicked by it sometimes when approached too casually to it (saying this from experience :s) I'm not too fond either of the hardcore kundalini spiritual use of DMT, this could be such a burden and a bummer really. As long as it tries to define and conscript the experience to ONE WAY of use, is no different from the kid that uses it with the 'lets get fuccckeedd up dudee' spirit. If psychedelics have taught me something over the years is always to be yourself, question everything and try to find your own path from direct experience of the whole.

^^In that sense I agree.

I don't know about the potential for abuse, but to me the potential for psychological harm seems very real. It can give you an ass kicking from which you will never recover (or at least be very bruised for a while). To say that this molecule doesn't have the power to change the way you see the world just seems wrong. It is a tool which must be used with care, skill, and respect in order not to get harmed.

^^ of brain cancer.

I remember reading about one member here who claimed that he had bridged reality with hyperspace to a certain extent after using DMT. I believe the exact effects were the onset of an uninduced dmt type trip pre and post sleep (sober tripping usually isn't desirable) as well as having wakeful sleeps (described as similar to lucid dreaming I believe) that left him unrested.

If I remember correctly House attested to some of the symptoms... perhaps he will chime in.

I can dig up the thread if anyone is interested in taking a look lemme know

^^^^
Wow nez this has happened to me a few times after smoking. Once i was in a lucid dreaming state laying in my bed and remembered seeing a lot of visual distortions and waking up several times but not to 'this' reality, but to different dimensions overlaping over my room. Then all of a sudden i was carried by some energy to the bathroom where i puked a stream of black vile. It was some kind of purge i guess. Then i woke up on my bed and for like 10 minutes i wasn't sure if i was back or what... it was very dmt like. And then another time it was more dream like, but i was carried inside a tunnel at hyperspeed and feeling strong synesthesia, there was a light at the end and when i finally reached it, I just opened my eyes clean and was laying in my bed... weird.

I remember how McKenna used to say: "Sometimes i dream that i'm smoking DMT... and it works!"

This could be the thread to which you were referring:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=15212

However, it looks like Astralex's bicameral episode was induced by a doobie (Marijuana increases risk of psychosis?), so maybe not. I'm kinda fascinated by the concept of being "permanently wired" to "hyperspace" though, so if anyone knows of any more threads on the topic I'd love to read them.