Hey Coatl, thanks for those interesting links.

So far SWIM has used 200 mg orally, and up to 75 mg sublingually.

Those doses don’t feel at all toxic. There was never any slightest hint of any nausea or it being too heavy.

200 mg orally was a good dose. Here are SWIM’s notes:

The experience was pleasant, and the most notable effect is a pleasant bodily tingling and slight euphoria.

Here’s his notes from the 75 mg sublingually:

I suspect that these are all very light doses. So far SWIM has not taken enough to really feel drugged by it, just pleasant tingling, slight euphoria, and a slight sedative effect. There’s also a “psychedelic” quality to it, but I can’t quite explain it.

There’s a report that 300 mg orally (of the freebase?) is similar to 100 mg of harmaline. SWIM hasn’t felt any harmaline type of effects from it at all and doesn’t believe that report. But maybe at much larger doses it starts becoming more like harmaline?

300 mg of pure THH freebase is as strong as about 600 mg of THH citrate.

Does anyone know if that single Tihkal report (it’s actually stolen from another book) of using 300 mg was of the freebase or a salt?

Not to derail this thread but...

Believe me i have been an advocate of her getting off that medication for quite sometime and she started to realize that it was in effect, numbing her emotions and blocking her creative energy and she wanted her feelings back... but she does suffer from deppression.

She stopped taking her lexapro altogether (against medical advice) and the w/d's that she experienced forced her to get back on them.

Now she is seeing a new Dr. who put her on Lamictal for mood swings (not an ssri),which i take aswell but he put her on a generic version of zoloft,which is an ssri.Apperently the doc wants to wean her down but i am skeptical of most Quacks (i apologize if there's any doctors in the room).

Benzyme gave me some good info a while back on an ssre but it's only available in europe,so we'll see.

I've had a bit of a long road myself i've been weening off suboxone for about 9 months (opiate inhibitor/blocker),i started from 16mg's and this week i'm down to 1 mg, so i'm almost there and i have a little kratom for the tail end w/d's

I've also been weening down on xanax.

The funny thing is,is with my own personal deamons and spiritual battle (it seems) is that none of this has reared its ugly head during any of swims dmt journeys,his journeys have alway's had a light,loving and warm feeling to them at worst it's gotten a little overwhelming at times but that seems pretty normal.

Anyway,thanx for everyones concern and thanx for letting me ramble.

Swims THH should be here anyday,thanx 69ron for the info. We should all buy stock in eCr**tr !

Acolon or traveler, if you need to move this to the hyperspace tavern,i understand. Peace to all...

I don't mean to sound harsh but I've had my times of depression in the past and I just dealt with it and made it pass by thinking positive things. I never thought of using "feel good" drugs to solve it. I think this nonsense about people thinking they need drugs because they are depressed is ridiculous!

Being depressed is a natural part of being human. It's important to be depressed sometimes. And it’s NOT GOOD to use "feel good" drugs to get out of it.

Antidepressants are “FEEL GOOD DRUGS”. They are dangerous and can allow your depression to get out of hand.

Too many people want a magic get well pill. There is no such thing. All of the antidepressants cause side effects and are not good to take every day.

The drug manufacturers getting rich off of people thinking their depression is going to be solved by a magic pill are making tons on money off of those suckers and they know they don’t really cure depression. I know. I’ve seen the studies. None of them really work. They just make you feel good, but you still have the same depressing thoughts, only now you have them while you’re high so it doesn’t bother you as much. That’s not a solution to the problem. It only makes it worse and users of such drugs normally end up changing from one drug to the next chasing that high feeling they got when they first starting using the antidepressants.

Depression should NOT be dealt with using “FEEL GOOD DRUGS". It should be dealt with using your brain, your intellect. It's the brain that causes depression. When someone is depressed it is because they are thinking things that make them feel bad. Taking antidepressant drugs isn't going to fix that, it will only make you high so it doesn’t bother you as much.

Get her off those damn drugs and get her excited about life again. Antidepressant drugs will only prolong the depression. It's a bandage approach. It's doesn't solve the problem. Only by changing the thoughts in a person’s head can depression really be cured.

It’s all about MIND CONTROL. Depression is a STATE OF MIND. It can only be changed through mind control. Antidepressant drugs can’t do it. They can make you high, that’s all.

Probably the most effective drug against depression is LSD, a very strong dose of LSD once every week in an intense surrounding where the things that make you depressed are shown to you over and over and over until you freak out and get numb mentally to it. Instead of hiding from those depression thoughts, put a magnifying glass on them, force them into your mind really intensely with LSD. Then when the LSD wears off, you’ll be mentally exhausted and tired of thinking the thoughts that made you depressed.

Anyway, that worked very well for SWIM. He was able to quit smoking and vastly improve his life by doing that with LSD.

LSD has a great potential to cure people using their intellect, not by making them high. The same thing can be done without LSD, but it takes a lot longer.

Anyway, that’s just my point of view.

Just for comparison purposes. SWIM tried 20 mg of freebase harmaline sublingually. There's a big difference. While with THH the effects include pleasant tingling, slight euphoria, and a peaceful state of mind, harmaline completely lacks the tingling, has maybe a tiny bit of euphoria, but is mostly causing a sedative effect on the mind.

Sublingually, harmaline isn't as strong as THH! SWIM was expecting the opposite. SWIM's tongue is numb from it, so it must have absorbed. The effect is so weak. SWIM can barely feel it. All he feels is a tiny bit of euphoria and a very noticeable sedative effect.

SWIM likes the sublingual THH more than harmaline as a stand alone experience. SWIM will try a larger harmaline dose sublingually to see if it makes any difference.

When you say weak, do you mean the metal/physical effects? Is there a way to guesstimate how effective an MAOI each is (for pharmahusaca or as an additive to traditional ayahuasca)?

Has anyone tried THH with another harmala alkaloid? How do they potentiate each other? Say 5-10mgs harmine + 20mgs THH?


UPDATE: 10mgs ingested intranasally. Very slight burn that quickly faded away to a tingle in the nose. Effects noted at 30seconds building to a peak at 5 minutes. This is a much more effective way to ingest THH than oral or sublingual. I've always thought sublingual wasted a lot of material. I'm not big on this method of ingestion but it is quite effective. Feels more euphoric, more tingly than 30mgs sublingualy. All of this is very subjective of course and YMMV.

I agree, but we're off topic... I'll start a new thread!

Lets finish this discussion here!

Back to THH...

I might try 30mg intranasally tonight... we'll see.

nice acolon...a perfect way to use the small amount of THH available...now...somebody want to try that with a hit of spice???

Yes, I was writing about the mental and physical effects being weak. SWIM didn’t test the MAOI effects of it.



Very interesting.

I know sublingual usage can be difficult to do right. Once the drug is detected, the mouth starts making a lot of saliva and this dilutes the drug making it less effective. One of the most effective sublingual methods is to place it directly under the tongue and press the tongue down on it tightly, preventing the saliva from getting to the drug. Hold it there for 10 minutes. A similar method is Ott’s method where he puts it on the underside of his tongue and holds his tongue up out of the saliva. That’s hard to do, but that is said to be as effective as snorting.

SWIM will have to try snorting it.

Has anyone tried smoking it?

Is it safe to smoke citrates?

Thank god you asked that before somebody did it in 20m.

I've heard of people smoking hydrochlorides. SWIM has tried smoking bufotenine hydrochloride before. SWIM made it right in his glass test tube pipe. He mixed in 10 mg of pure freebase bufotenine with 1 ml of 10% hydrochloric acid solution. He left it to dry overnight. It dried to a sticky goo. When he smoked it, it made him nauseated for about 1 hour, caused a little euphoria, but no visuals. It didn't work very well at all, but SWIM was fine. His lungs didn't get bothered by it at all.

I think hydrochlorides are safe to smoke.

Citric acid is considered one of the safest most well tolerated acids around. But I've never heard of anyone smoking citrates before.

Hydrochloric acid boils and vaporizes at 110 C without decomposition. So it makes sense that you can vaporize hydrochlorides.

Citric acid is a solid. It doesn’t boil and vaporize, but instead decomposes at 175 C. I think if you smoked tetrahydroharmine citrate it might decompose before it vaporized. Does anyone know?

Somebody needs to do the freebase or whatever the most effective smoking method is!

Can you imagine pure Tetrahydroharmine freebase + pure DMT freebase mixed in the same pipe? That's like smoking some godly Ayahuasca!!! Somebody should fill a joint with a cannabis + THH + DMT mixture.

I reeeeeaaally think we may be onto something here guys...

SWIM just tried 20 mg THH citrate sublingually and then smoked 4 mg of pure freebase bufotenine (5-HO-DMT) 30 minutes later. It didn't make the bufotenine any stronger, but it did make it last longer and made the tingling far more pleasant. It also affected the closed eye visuals making them more rounded and less jumpy.

Next time SWIM wants to try snorting it with smoked bufotenine and using a much larger dose of THH. But SWIM is out of THH now. No more tests for a while.

...It's now been 1 1/2 hours since SWIM did the bufotenine. The visuals are still present. The bufotenine tingling is still present. It feels more like DMT now. Its quite pleasant. It's about 1/3 the strength it was at the peak. It’s been about the same for quite a long time. It seems like its going to last much longer.

20 mg sublingually definitely prolongs the effects of the 4 mg of smoked freebase bufotenine. I think a mix of harmine and THH would make the bufotenine last much longer and be much stronger. I’m not sure I like it lasting longer though.

but you did say that it made it less jumpy? in a good or bad way?

SWIM is very interested in this molecule...and will soon have some pure FBbufo but obviously wants to get a nice feel for it before he tries another of his extractions...the last one was active...but no visuals...it actually made him pass out for 2 hours...both times..woke up feeling fine though...

edit: there were some visuals...but the whole experience was masked in a way...almost like waking up from a dream...the dream just slipped away like it didnt even happen

That’s hard to say. It was different. Slightly more calm. Usually the bufotenine visuals are extremely alive and jumpy, almost like lightning. The THH smoothed out the visuals, making them more DMT-like. More rounded, less jumpy.

SWIM also noticed some time dilation effects before the peak hit. He’s never noticed time dilation effects from bufotenine before. Before the peak, time was definitely moving more slowly.

Also the peak lasted longer.

But these alterations in the effects were mild. The dominant effect was that of bufotenine. The THH effects were drowned out. But then again, SWIM only used 20 mg of THH. That’s a very small dose.



That’s different. I’ve not heard of that before. What dose was taken?

SWIM has a feeling that the method of vaporization was not adequate(his smoking vaporizer is more suited for smoking spice and needs to get a nice glass vial with stopper and tubing)...and may have only gotten the vapors of oils and toxins(that was talked about in the extraction thread) and slight amounts of bufo...

the first time he started off small with about 3mgs and didnt feel much...he added some more and tried again and nothing still...he just figured that it wasnt quite as pure as he had hoped so he loaded it up a bit..probably 15-20 mg of impure bufoFB...hit it...and then woke up two hours later...was completely alert...he didnt realize it had been two hours until he talked to somebody and told him the time..haha it was kinda funny

but the second time he tried about 15mgs again..right before going to sleep...he had heard somewhere that it was fun to go to sleep to...well it put him to sleep..except he said he woke up later in the night and couldnt fall asleep for the life of him..ended up having weird half awake dreams the rest of the night..

Is he using a vaporizer, the electric kind? Those don't work with bufotenine. They don't get hot enough.

hes using a flame powered vaporizer...and it only gets up to like 400F which wouldnt work now would it...technique needs to change i would say

Yeah, it needs to get to at least 610 F!

does SWIY use a normal lighter or a torch lighter?

edit: would using aluminum foil and a straw work for this at all? with lighter heating up foil from underside?

A candle flame is hot enough to do it. That gets to about 1832 F.

Don't treat it like it’s the fragile DMT. Bufotenine is a tough molecule when it comes to heat. You need to torch it! Treat it like you’re smoking salvinorin A. Use the same smoking procedure. But start with very small inhalations (too small for effect) and work up once every minute until you get a really large lung full. Don’t get it all at once.

You want to use a torch lighter for the best effects. Toke a little bit (not enough for effects), then a little more, then a little more, and then finally a massive toke. Space each toke apart by about 1-2 minutes. With each inhalation hold it for about 20 seconds. It takes only 20 seconds for the bufotenine to solidify in your lungs.

Smoking technique is the key to avoiding side effects. You get tolerance to the side effects faster than tolerance to the hallucinogenic effects. So the more often you smoke it, the quicker you get tolerance to the side effects. Meaning it’s better to start with a low dose and work up over the course of several minutes than to smoke one large toke. You’re much more likely to get nausea and head tension for a few minutes if you inhale one large toke. If you do it gradually over several minutes you won’t get nausea or head tension, but you need a little bit more for the effects. The hallucinogenic effects are also improved by using this method. It becomes more DMT-like if you space out the inhalations like I said.

With bufotenine, there are three stages: onset, peak, and decline. Each stage is a little different. The start of the onset is where the side effects are. This is also where the most effects on the mind are. The visuals at this point are very rounded and thin, almost like dancing snakes, and unlike anything else. The auditory effects are most noticeable in the onset, and there is sometimes prickling sensations felt in the head. At the peak, the side effects are usually gone and the visuals look more DMT-like. At this point you feel tingling sensations in the face and the mind is much clearer. The decline stage is more psilocybin like. The visuals look almost like mushroom visuals at this point and are no longer like dancing snakes. During this stage there’s lots of pleasant body tingling and some psilocybin like euphoria kicks in.

THH makes the bufotenine trip last nearly 3 times longer and makes it more DMT-like near the end of the trip. It also seems to counteract the tension effects. But SWIM is not completely sure about that. He needs to do more tests