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antrocles
#1 Posted : 2/18/2011 2:42:37 AM

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so- i've subscribed to vernon howard's secrets of life for years. every day i get a great little quote in my email. some long and meditative, some short and profound. all of them are awesome. i have a folder in my email where i keep them all so at this point i have the equivalent of a novel where every sentence is pure wisdom!

definitely worth looking into...

anyways, i got this one today. it's a little longer than most but man is it hitting the nail on the head for me. the last 3 sentences, in particular, are pretty much the summation of my life as it is now. hopefully it's not just something that i alone find poignant....i'm posting it because i think everyone will get something out of it. enjoy!

one of the most tormenting features of human life is that of making decisions.

Will you not agree that it's one of your more hounding situations of life,

having to make small decisions, large ones, afraid that you're

going to make the wrong one, hoping that by chance you'll make

the right one and get the reward that you hope to have? Making

decisions, to repeat, is one of the chief torments of human

existence and we do everything possible to avoid it. We ask

some one else, or we read a book, or we close our eyes and flip

a coin and go to the left or right whichever way the coin flips.

But whichever one we take, we're never, never, never at ease.

We wonder, 'Well, had I taken the other one, maybe I'd be happier

and maybe I'd be wealthier.'

To live in this sort of situation where you walk down the path

and every hundred yards or so you run into a choice, this is a

very elementary way to live, and it is no way to live. Where you

have to make choices at all, you are still a sleeping human being.

You're a human being who hasn't risen above their intellect where

the necessity for choices exist. You are simply a thinking human

being instead of a seeing human being."

Shocked


with the deepest love and gratitude!!
"Rise above the illusion of time and you will have tomorrow's
wisdom today."
 

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Ice House
#2 Posted : 2/18/2011 3:59:38 AM

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antrocles,

Thank you for sharing this. The words of wisdom I have found myself telling my sons many times over the years that,

Life is about decisions and consequences. In life as I experience it, there is no learning without decisions.

Decisions and consequences.


Quote:
We wonder, 'Well, had I taken the other one, maybe I'd be happier

and maybe I'd be wealthier.'


This is a dilema I try and avoid. Pondering the past and questioning my decisions too much.
I make a decision if I dont like living with the outcome I change, I evolve, and I dont make that same decision again.

Interesting how decision and mistake are two words that can be interchangable.

lol


interesting piece thanks for sharing,

IH
Ice House is an alter ego. The threads, postings, replys, statements, stories, and private messages made by Ice House are 100% unadulterated Bull Shit. Every aspect of the Username Ice House is pure fiction. Any likeness to SWIM or any real person is purely coincidental. The creator of Ice House does not condone or participate in any illicit activity what so ever. The makebelieve character known as Ice House is owned and operated by SWIM and should not be used without SWIM's expressed written consent.
 
jbark
#3 Posted : 2/18/2011 4:18:17 AM

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I don't get this. At all. How can you live without having to make choices, as a "seeing" human being? Making decisions is "no way to live"?! Choice is power, power over your life, your destiny. Unless, of course, you believe in predestination, in which case this still seems to me to be a cop out.

What am I missing here? Is there hidden wisdom? Should we avoid decisions? Makes no sense to me...

Perhaps I am "asleep"? Better asleep making decisions than awake avoiding them, IMHO.Smile

JBArk
JBArk is a Mandelthought; a non-fiction character in a drama of his own design he calls "LIFE" who partakes in consciousness expanding activities and substances; he should in no way be confused with SWIM, who is an eminently data-mineable and prolific character who has somehow convinced himself the target he wears on his forehead is actually a shield.
 
Bill Cipher
#4 Posted : 2/18/2011 4:21:16 AM

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I'm with you, brudda. What kind of wonky message is that?

Sorry, A. This one just sails over my head, I guess.
 
Rooftop
#5 Posted : 2/18/2011 12:16:13 PM

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As I understand it, this message jumps in the deep end of mysticism, and refers to the capacity of human beings to reach a state of non duality, of "seeing" through, thus becoming a Seer, an Enlightened, a Buddha, or whatever you like to call it.

Once the man-made notions of good and bad, etc have no relevance, and one is absolutely connected to the Synchronicity and going with the Flow, there is only spontaneous action without a specific result in view, aka no choice to be made, nothing to avoid or move towards.

This can lead to actions that can appear absolutely irrational and crazy from the outside, although thay are truly the expression of ultimate freedom and creativity, which is why many texts warn that the Enlightened is often seen as having the mind of a child or a madman, and is prone to get his ass kicked by the common folk and walk aimlessly in the desert (for more info about such hardships, refer to the movie "The life of Brian"Pleased

It most probably takes a huge bag of balls to reach such a state Very happy , and even more so to maintain it. The Love you experience is only matched by the fun you are being made of, which is why lots of people attracted by such a way hide in caves and monasteries at the risk of missing out on the fun.
it's about making life a neverending experience of wonderfulness!
 
gibran2
#6 Posted : 2/18/2011 3:33:25 PM

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jbark wrote:
I don't get this. At all. How can you live without having to make choices, as a "seeing" human being? Making decisions is "no way to live"?! Choice is power, power over your life, your destiny. Unless, of course, you believe in predestination, in which case this still seems to me to be a cop out.

What am I missing here? Is there hidden wisdom? Should we avoid decisions? Makes no sense to me...

Perhaps I am "asleep"? Better asleep making decisions than awake avoiding them, IMHO.Smile

JBArk

It should be no surprise to you that I take the position you consider to be a cop out. Wink

Although I donā€™t necessarily believe in predestination, I donā€™t believe that there is free will, either. When you drop a glass, does it ā€œdecideā€ to fall? When it hits the floor, does it ā€œchooseā€ to shatter?

Choice is an illusion. A convenient abstraction. A contrivance used to describe aspects of our model of reality. A part of the model, but not a part of reality.
gibran2 is a fictional character. Any resemblance to anyone living or dead is purely coincidental.
 
jbark
#7 Posted : 2/18/2011 3:54:16 PM

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gibran2 wrote:
jbark wrote:
I don't get this. At all. How can you live without having to make choices, as a "seeing" human being? Making decisions is "no way to live"?! Choice is power, power over your life, your destiny. Unless, of course, you believe in predestination, in which case this still seems to me to be a cop out.

What am I missing here? Is there hidden wisdom? Should we avoid decisions? Makes no sense to me...

Perhaps I am "asleep"? Better asleep making decisions than awake avoiding them, IMHO.Smile

JBArk

It should be no surprise to you that I take the position you consider to be a cop out. Wink



Although I donā€™t necessarily believe in predestination, I donā€™t believe that there is free will, either. When you drop a glass, does it ā€œdecideā€ to fall? When it hits the floor, does it ā€œchooseā€ to shatter?

Choice is an illusion. A convenient abstraction. A contrivance used to describe aspects of our model of reality. A part of the model, but not a part of reality.


It might surprise you that I too believe thisSmile , to an extent (as much as that is possible)Smile

But using predestination as an excuse for avoiding choices was what I meant by a cop out, not belief in predestination as a philosophy.Wink

The illusion of choice, if it be an illusion, is an important one, IMO to perpetuate. The alternative is apathy and "choicelessness". I just don't get how this is an honourable or important goal...

I picture sitting around doing nothing, making no choices and justifying it from a standpoint of enlightenment and a philosophy of predestination... How could this be good for the world, a civilization or an individual?

Seems I am missing part of the puzzle...Wink

JBArk
JBArk is a Mandelthought; a non-fiction character in a drama of his own design he calls "LIFE" who partakes in consciousness expanding activities and substances; he should in no way be confused with SWIM, who is an eminently data-mineable and prolific character who has somehow convinced himself the target he wears on his forehead is actually a shield.
 
gibran2
#8 Posted : 2/18/2011 4:29:40 PM

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jbark wrote:
It might surprise you that I too believe thisSmile , to an extent (as much as that is possible)Smile

But using predestination as an excuse for avoiding choices was what I meant by a cop out, not belief in predestination as a philosophy.Wink

The illusion of choice, if it be an illusion, is an important one, IMO to perpetuate. The alternative is apathy and "choicelessness". I just don't get how this is an honourable or important goal...

I picture sitting around doing nothing, making no choices and justifying it from a standpoint of enlightenment and a philosophy of predestination... How could this be good for the world, a civilization or an individual?

Seems I am missing part of the puzzle...Wink

JBArk

I would never suggest that the answer to acceptance of the absence of free will is to sit around doing nothing. Choices are important. Our actions have consequences. All the philosophizing in the world isnā€™t going to change that.

So other than satisfying some intellectual quirk, what does acknowledgement of the absence of free will do? It brings us closer to reality. Not the reality we imagine or the reality we find convenient, but reality as it is. It also brings a strange sort of peace and tranquility. To know that everything is exactly as it must be. Not as it should be, or as we would like it to be, but as it must be.

Iā€™ve had several hyperspace visits where it was made clear to me that entities in that realm are fully aware of the absence of free will ā€“ there is no free will anywhere. Not here, not there. But they accept that. They celebrate it. Just as the blossoming of a flower is not a free choice made by the flowering plant, our ā€œblossomingā€ is not our choice. And just as the blossoming of a flower can bring joyful celebration, so too can ours.
gibran2 is a fictional character. Any resemblance to anyone living or dead is purely coincidental.
 
pilotsimone
#9 Posted : 2/21/2011 6:35:48 AM

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Antrocles - I watched this after my hard trip. Twice. You might get something out of it too. Been thinking about you, friend. <3

Who's Driving the Dreambus?
 
TheAppleCore
#10 Posted : 2/21/2011 7:51:15 AM

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gibran2 wrote:
I would never suggest that the answer to acceptance of the absence of free will is to sit around doing nothing. Choices are important. Our actions have consequences. All the philosophizing in the world isnā€™t going to change that.

So other than satisfying some intellectual quirk, what does acknowledgement of the absence of free will do? It brings us closer to reality. Not the reality we imagine or the reality we find convenient, but reality as it is. It also brings a strange sort of peace and tranquility. To know that everything is exactly as it must be. Not as it should be, or as we would like it to be, but as it must be.

Iā€™ve had several hyperspace visits where it was made clear to me that entities in that realm are fully aware of the absence of free will ā€“ there is no free will anywhere. Not here, not there. But they accept that. They celebrate it. Just as the blossoming of a flower is not a free choice made by the flowering plant, our ā€œblossomingā€ is not our choice. And just as the blossoming of a flower can bring joyful celebration, so too can ours.


This is exactly how I think, and I've had very similar DMT experiences too! Agree with every word in this post.
 
TheAppleCore
#11 Posted : 2/21/2011 9:41:32 AM

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pilotsimone wrote:
Antrocles - I watched this after my hard trip. Twice. You might get something out of it too. Been thinking about you, friend. <3

Who's Driving the Dreambus?


Wow! Some very deep and fascinating conversations on that documentary. Thank you for the link. =)
 
mad_banshee
#12 Posted : 3/8/2011 5:43:06 AM

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jbark wrote:
I don't get this. At all. JBArk


I assume it is context sensitive and not as in decisions like "to take the 405 or the 5 to get to Santa Anna?"

In THE most important choice in life, we don't decide to be who we are or decide who we want to be, we simply take that path (perhaps without even understanding it) and yet hold it dear come what may.
Peace

Mad Banshee

Note that the poster of this message would never actually use or recommend to use illegal substances. He is just an attention seeker and should be considered to be lying about everything he posts and his posts are only for the sake of generating discussion.
 
 
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