Yeah sodium carb is very good but so far doesnt seem very promissing, right? Lets hope someone makes it work well with good yields

But narmz, lye isnt damaging to throw away, its used to unblock drains. And you can always neutralize it with some acid creating a harmless salt... Not saying the other ways shouldnt be explored, on the contrary, they should, but I think some fears regarding lye dont have good basis.

As for dmt lye contamination, yes, but if you do a hot water wash with proper shaking, I would say that any significant lye contamination will be eliminated (plus remember lye wont vaporize at lighter temperature, but anyways it wouldnt be there if you clean it up properly). All in theory of course I havent tested yet, but that sounds to me like how it would play out. Maybe someone disagrees and im open to changing my mind if someone puts good arguments against this

I'm not saying lye is bad to use, i'm saying it would make obvious sense to use lime or sodium carb if a method were found to make them as or nearly as effective. There is a certain niftiness in doing an extraction without more nastier chems like lye or naptha. It's just cool, like a home-baked lovely loaf a bread. You can stress the importance of using chems safely and that's important, but you can also stress the importance of making smart choices about what chems to use. Unless you got a decked out lab, chances are that potential accidents could be more trouble than their worth with certain chems, and it's good to evaluate that based on your situation i think.

Couldn't you also redissolve your final product in vinegar and then go the acetate to freebase via heat route? No additional chems needed other than vinegar and it would neutralize any lye while keeping the tek simple. The only downside is you would lose any pretty crystals for waxier freebase...but that's only aesthetic.

I completely agree



Yes, and another possibility that we just discussed in the chat is dissolving in warm FASW water and re-crystallizing from water using sodium carbonate like explained in BLAB

The way SWIM see's it, if he never ever thought lye was necessary for extraction, he probably never would have bought any at all, and now that he knows it's not, he tries to come at it from a fresh perspective and sees no need. Still though, the gravitation away from petrochems is the most important first step for the sake of keeping a low profile and avoiding hazards, but why not go all the way and eliminate lye from the process?

but how do you propose that, amorfati, if sodium carb isnt yet working well with precipitating dmt directly out of mimosa-tea water?

Maybe putting it in the fridge or even freezer for a few mins could help?

Owsley has a point, so... Just sayin'

My intention was not to make Owsley's words a fact but I find it interesting that a LSD chemist (although he says he's a cook) holds those beliefs.

It is interesting

You could use KOH couldn't you. The stuff can hurt you but it isnt as strong as the NaOH, even in its crystal form. I haven't done the chemcial formulas, not sure if I could remember how, but won't the potassium react differently with the sodium carbonate, if that is what you start with? How will the spice react to the various combinations of KOH, NaOH, and the Na2CO3?

The salt ion that is attached to the spice will react with the base... I dont know what salt dmt is naturally in mimosa, maybe tannate from tannic acid.. So if it was sodium carbonate or lye with dmt tannate I would say it would form sodium tannate and with potassium hydroxide it would form potassium tannate, and the dmt would just be in freebase form to the high pH, with any of those bases (with sodium carb less so because of the pH not raising so high, but still it should be most of it). Im no chemist but thats my understanding of it.

KOH is also pretty caustic and it could hurt you bad too without propper precautions (for example if a solution with it drops in your eyes.

It just doesn't seem to be as aggressive on the skin, is my meaning behind not as strong as NaOH.

Maybe a bit cryptic, but my statement is not limited to reference of this tek. Removing lye and hazardous solvents from extraction is nothing new, but if this tek could be done without lye, that'd be great too. My question is that there's plenty of reason to not use any hazardous chemicals, so why not go all out? Why would one choose this tek over another that doesn't incorporate lye is the question. Separation of polar from nonpolar layers is a cinch with freezing.

Hmmm... I'm not at all convinced of this latter claim. Nor would I recommend testing it.

It's still a good base, though.

Lots of great discussion everyone! I've found the amount of lye I use in this process is pretty minimal (maybe 6 rounded teaspoons for 100g extraction). And I've got some of the lye-saturated solutions on my hands and in a cut, and didn't really experience any dramatic injury or burn, which isn't really a risk if you wash it off pretty quickly. The only big risk here is the eyes, so make sure to wear eye protection.

Lye has been used for hundreds of years, and I don't really get a bad vibe from it (as I would from petrochemicals) -- if you don't like that it's made from chemical processes, you can extract your own from wood ash. It's not that difficult to do.

I will update as I get more crystallization. The big 100g batch is beginning to crystallize now. Should be a couple more days.

-- Wanderer

This tek looks very promising. It might be good to do a run through an espresso coffee maker for making the brew.

I made some from wood ash, it has to hard wood, no conifers or pines, hickory is best from what I have been told and read. This process creates KOH, has a redish-orange color to it. You can strengthen it by multiple ash washes and then evaporation - it will form crystals if completely dehydrated.

Currently going through the filtering process.

The lye batches did not change after three days. The ph was just tested and was shown to be 12.40. Additional lye was added and, with both the first and second boil, at the moment the ph reached 13 an orange oily substance was seen floating on top. They have been put back in the fridge in hopes that now crystals will grow.

The first and second boil of the sodium carbonate solutions is being filtered. In both cases there was a large amount of brown particulate resting at the bottom of the container. The first boil had, as seen in one pic, a black crusty substance on top. The second boil, also pictured earlier, had a brown oily substance floating on top. I don't have much confidence in these two batches. Nothing about these makes me think spice.
In both the sodium carbonate batches the ph is at ten.

Is there any reason that the sodium carbonate would be what has precipetated out? Sodium carbonate should stay in solution in DH20 even if it's refridgerated right?
It may be worth noting I filtered the hell out of the mimosa tea before basifying. I first ran it through a t-shirt, then coffee filters, then I let it sit for a few hours, decanted and then ran it through a vacuum filter (huge pain in the ass as the filters clogged almost immediately and I went through about 10 of them.

In the pictures you can see the filtrate from the Na2CO3 batches. It was a grey sludge and I've been running warm water over it. It is leaving behind brown/black waxy.... ...stuff? Not sure how comfortable I am with bio-assaying this material.
Can anyone tell me what this stuff could be theoretically?
The only things entering into the equation are heat, water, MHRB and Na2CO3.

Sorry, The Green Entity sounds a bit of an ass in his post. He must refrain from posting when he is that stoned and drunk. All very good points that have been brought up.

Anyways his aversion to lye is just a personal preference. The big question would be that if one were to get this tek to work with sodium carb instead of lye and it pretty much just worked just as good, how many people would still use lye instead?

For those who would prefer to not use lye it would be nice to find a way for this to work with sodium carb. He is not totally opposed to using lye, he may just try it with this tek to see the difference of quality and experience from other teks. He would rather brainstorm ways of making sodium carb work than debate whether lye is not good to use...... and yes as stated, there is not really any right or wrongs just different perspectives in the polarities and it is up to the individuals free will to decide what is best for them although a good debate always brings better understanding for the individuals to decide.



Please forgive him he is not a chemist yet he does have some ingenuity.

So after the evaporation of the IPA it would already be in crystallized form, and it wouldn't get refined anymore by placing it in sodium carb water?

What if one were to pull with IPA from the drytek sodium carb mixture, then drop some FASIPA and collect the precips for freebasing? Is that just the standard FASA method or is that different in some way? Would it still be pretty impure?

Maybe it is Jungle?

hmmm...could be i suppose.

Only problem now is that warm water isn't removing any more of the grey gunk from the brown stuff(possibly jungle?). Most of what was there initially dissolved in the water and flowed through the filter. Unfortunately not all of it has so I'm left with those dark brown chunks mixed with this grey crap. No idea what the grey stuff is...my guess is sodium carbonate or some byproduct thereof.