I agree with previous post this is very interesting. I wonder if this would work with other plants.

New updates (images)!

So the Carbonate solution didn't seem to work well (as reported previously), so lye was added. After about 2-3 days, solid crystals can now be seen floating on top (see picture; those rainbow/colorful specks actually appear to the eye as well, DMT apparently has funny refractive properties). The other pictures attached are of the crystals drawn off a second draw off the first lye test solution (with 20-30 grams of MHRB), which produced more crystals -- quite a bit more -- after more lye was added. I washed the crystals with fresh water, and they are now pretty much clear (the yellow light gives them a yellow hue). The other picture is of the current 100 gram batch, with lye. As you can see, there is quite a bit of DMT floating on-top. Some good crystals should come out of this one.

Patience seems to be key here, guys. The good crystals shown in the image took a few days to form. But I think the final product is worth it (good, clean, clear crystals).

Opiyum -- strange! I look forward to seeing what happens with the Carbonate. Be patient with the lye one -- sometimes it can take a while.

-- Wanderer

Nice very nice indeed! Although he doesn't like the idea of using lye.

The Green Entity wonders.....

He doesn't know if this would work but what if one were to do a dry tek freebase with sodium carbonate first to ensure freebase? Powder the bark, mix with sodium carbonate and minimum amount of water (probably in a blender as per armor_fati tek)

Then add more water (don't know how much) and filter the plant matter out. Then let sit in fridge for a few days.

If so it would be the easiest tek ever and most non toxic. Input please....or he might just have to try it.

The potential problem I see with that, logos, is that when you freebase with sodium carb, once you add the water, the dmt freebase wont be moving to the water (because its insoluble in it, so unless you pull with a solvent, you cant discard the plant matter or you'll be discarding the goodies.

What is it about lye you dont like? The possibility of it in your final product? (in that case do a hot water wash)

or is it the fact that it can burn you? (then wear protection)

or is it that you dont want to buy it for being watched, expensive or unavaliable or not wanting to get industrial-grade products? (in that case you could make it yourself with sodium carb+calcium hydroxide)

aaaaaah I want to know (final) yields!!!! let us know.. PLEASE!!!!

Also if yields are good will there be a final clean write-up of this tek? I hope so. It's awesome work! If I get a weekend off I will def. try this as well.

cheers & love
Enoon

Ca(OH)2 + Na2CO3 → CaCO3 + 2 NaOH

Scaling up can be problematic, Calcium Hydroxide is expensive is some parts of the world etc, what will actually be in your NaOH if you make it from sodium bicarbonate to sodium carbonate to sodium hydroxide, ...

I don't think this route is well researched on here.

To the ones testing this tek: Could you do a test with a common extraction procedure - or multiple - side by side with the water approach, and post all the numbers here? This will allow us all to visualize the efficiency of this tek a lot better than just plain numbers (which are more or less meaningless without something to compare them against).

I might be testing this approach next week, just want to see the results from you guys first.

I'm using the same bark that has yielded 1.7-2.0% with various other teks recently...in fact I think I've posted about them.
So we'll see what kind of numbers I get and I did record the volumes and weights of everything I used.
Just not done yet.

It's really interesting watching this change day to day. The jar labeled 'second boil Na2CO3' now has crystals growing in that brown oily material floating on top. The others haven't changed yet.


EDIT: Starting to see the first couple crystals forming in the lye batches. Only the first boil, not the second.

Very cool guys! Again, another with an aversion to lye (for all of the reasons that have been listed, plus knowing someone who got some in his eye while cleaning a drain), and lime's worked consistently for SWIM, thus-far. Still though, anything to get folks away from using questionable and hazardous solvents is a giant leap forward. When SWIM used to use a wet technique to convert fumarates to freebase, collecting with naphtha, he would do it in a fairly chilly environment and crystals would form between layers. This reminded him of that.

Try using THP for filtering, rather than coffee filters, and it should be more expedient. Also, try manual crystallization to get a nice, easy to handle, solid product. Also, ditto to doing a more thorough wash...lye probably wouldn't be a great additive to pharma.

Yeah he was thinking this but he figured that since it was freebased that it would be released from the plant matter and travel with the water, yet he sees the problem if one were to filter, it would probably get stuck in the filter right? Perhaps filtering while hot might help it migrate to the water?

He would rather use IPA than lye...So in that case, could one not just do IPA pulls on the drytek sodium carb mixture, then evaporate, then add to sodium carb water to crystallize?



This is just their opinion but the entities are of the understanding that the final result retains the energies of whatever chems were used in the process of making it. Even if it is fully washed and chemical analysis shows no traces, it still had to go through the process of being in that harsh environment to achieve the final result.

He has no problem with buying lye from a local store.

He doesn't like to have to wear goggles, gloves, solvent mask to protect face, etc.. if he doesn't have to.

He is also concerned a bit about it being in the final product.

If one was too concerned about it being in there and willing to use IPA, one could always salt the final result using FASA/FASIPA, then do some washes with IPA and then freebase again.

I really dont think it would work, freebase dmt might slightly dissolve in hot water, but i doubt all or most of it (though if you wanna try anyways, just dont throw anything away and have some solvent in case you need it)



check the cake extraction from spiceman, it works on this idea of making a freebased mimosa dry cake, pulling with some kind of alcohol and then evapping. But it will be very impure, and adding to sodium carb water wont make it crystallize because it will be already in freebase form. Maybe if you redissolve it in FASW and then add sodium carb saturated solution it could work. But this also brings me to:



Ok I understand each one is free to have their opinion but:

Why is lye "harsh" ? Its just sodium and hydroxide ions. A lot of the common food you will eat can have come in contact with that too

Also what makes IPA any less harsh? It isnt a 'natural' solvent either, it involved a chemical synthesis to make it, which can have used chemicals such as sulfuric acid and also propene which comes from fossil fuels usually...

Maybe its rather your subjective ideas about it that is affecting the experience and not something objective about the chemical?



I understand if you preffer a process where these risks are not there but, its just safety precautions, just like you wear seatbelt when driving a car and stop on redlights, or why you use shoes when walking on the streets or why electric sockets arent exposed metals to the outside but rather to the inside, whatever else. It doesnt necessarily make the whole thing bad, each thing we do in life has risks and we will measure whatever we feel is necessary and consider the risks and adapt to it, right?

Please dont take this all as an offense, Im just questioning because I feel its important to put our beliefs to test and to use other's feedback to make our ideas as reasonable as possible, but you should do exactly what you feel is right for you. Personally im all for finding teks that use the safest chemicals and I dont extract with petrochems for a long time, but I definitely dont think that objectively it makes the dmt worse if you used lye or something like this, as long as you make sure to follow safety precautions and clean up so that there arent traces of the chems. Lye is commonly used in a lot of food things, its just about being the right quantity and so on. But thats also just my opinion on the whole thing



What about the warm water wash?

Well the question is would you rather have used things that have been used to burn skin and eyballs to create or would you rather use two ingreedients that have either been used to raise the ph in a swimming pool and or get drunk...?

And then one might see how the harsh energy of the chems used might influence the final result. He almost thinks that all your swis should use olive oil as a solvent. Used to anoint peoples heads. Sorry he likes to drop a bit of knowledge when he's smoked some weed.

That doesnt make too much sense to me.. Hopefully lye isnt purpousely used to burn skin and eyeballs, and if this does happen, its from bad use/accidents, and not because it has something inherently bad in it. You dont go blaming a knife's "bad energy" because knives are also used to kill people or because some people might accidentally chop their fingers off, or blame water for bad energy because people have drowned in it, right? And if we're talking straight numbers, for sure more people have died because of water than because of lye, so you guys might as well stop with this water-only tek or there'll be some bad karma heading your way :evil:

J/K of course, do as you feel is right, Im just putting your arguments to test since you decided to put them in public

(btw you didnt answer me about the IPA logical contradiction either)

I think it is a good thing overall that the majority of people don't see this bad energy from the chems that influences the final result.

Because simply such a thing doesn't exist.

Actually

"Owsley was convinced that the vibe at the time of synthesis had a direct correlation to the type of trip that particular batch would produce".

Don't underestimated the Juju !

agreed! These chemicals are damn useful. Just cause they can be dangerous if misused (which just about everything can be) doesn't mean they have a *harsh energy* per se. I suppose this is all in the head of the respective chemist using them. Personally I enjoy working with chemicals, even with the strong ones like lye or HCl - so long as I have gloves and goggles I feel comfortable. To me there is a certain magic especially in those... you see, it's all in the head

cheers

Owsley also thinks all vegetables are toxic, so... Just sayin'.

Sounds to me like SWIY has a strong affinity to the Judeo-Christian narrative. This existence, this universe is multi-valent; A and some times B, not so much A or B; not bi-valent. We have been indoctrinated to look in black and white, it permeates our western culture - that for some reason the variation of color is bad or impure, when in fact there is no pure black or pure white. Lye contains the power; the energy to create or destroy. Much like us; humans. I have the power within me to overcome any 'curse', with just a simple thought. In my experience it is us, our own souls, that are the root cause of a 'bad trip' or a 'good trip'. It is all about the discipline of the mind, the ability to direct your energy; your vibe. Fear not.

I think if you can use lime or sodium carb instead of lye and get the same results, that's good, cause you don't have to deal with the possibility of major accidents, and the bi-products you toss out aren't as imbalancing to natural systems as a heavily concentrated lye solution would be. The idea that the solution to pollution is dilution is bunk, and has been for ages. Just the comfort in knowing that no lye will be found in the end product is worth the extra work for some. I find it hard to believe that this tek would produce dmt that is not heavily lye contaminated. You're basically trying to crystallize out of a solution of lye, some of the solvent medium will be incorporated within the crystal matrix, potentially lye, especially with all the plant oils and fats mucking with it all.

There is a reason folks like to separate using a non-polar, it's so that they don't end up with a contaminated product, from both oils and bases.