I think additional cold water should be fine. SWIMs final product is pretty pure using this simple procedure. If there is a lot of particulate left in the product, simply dissolve the freebase in acetone and separate from the particulate contaminants.

-- Wanderer

If you're following this tek, I would suggest recrystallizing at least once, I wouldn't trust cold water to remove all of the lye present in the precipitates, lye is most likely embedded within the product, so a recrystallization would be a really good idea.

Wow...this is excellent. Would a heptane (Bestine) re-X get rid of any residual NaOH?
N.B.

Indeed, NaOH isn't soluble in non-polar solvents (or acetone).

Yeah but then it would kinda miss the beauty of doing a water -only tek.. What about using boiling water and then letting it cool down? Boiling water and plenty of stiring would most likely dissolve any lye even hidden in the crystals and yet when it cools down the dmt wouldnt be soluble in it even if some does dissolve at boiling temp.

What do you guys think?

I don't know about boiling water; it might boil off the freebase. NaOH is highly soluble in water, even at low temperatures. That's why SWIM feels cool-to-cold water is best. Simply rinsing the crystals with cool water should rinse away any appreciable amounts of NaOH. The few stray molecules left over won't do much, and don't vaporize at the same temperature freebase spice does (it's much higher).

It wont boil off freebase, the numbers of freebase boiling temperature that are often quoted (60-80c) are wrong, as even shulgin said so. Several people here in the forum noticed that double-boilers do not vap dmt. In any case you dont have to use boiling water, but at least have it hot. While lye tends to dissolve well in water, it might also take a while to do so (you must have noticed how sometimes you put lye in a container with water and it just sinks to the bottom and only with some stiring it dissolves)

You can use hot water prudently and IMO would be safer by making it more sure to dissolve lye, I see only disadvantages in using cold water (though of course each one will decide for themselves )

I agree that lye doesnt vap at lighter temperatures and that it would be little anyways but unless you are smoking in a water bong its possible unvaporized suspended particles come together with the dmt vapor. It might be too little, but it might also make it harsh. And if one can avoid it, why not, right?

I would love to experiment with this, but unfortunately (or fortunately, I suppose) I have more “product” than I will ever use. Not a bad problem to have, but it does discourage one from doing experimental extractions.

All great points endlessness -- SWIM'll give it a go with warm water too. SWIM plans to smoke a bit of the cold-water washed spice pretty soon since its a beautiful day, and he feels fantastic. Its his first significant dabble into the hyperspace, but he'll start small. SWIM will report back with how harsh the smoke is.

-- Wanderer

Bah... Swims never ever lost any yeild from high percentage frozen ammonia. Works fine! Lol
To each their own...

Indeed, to each their own!

So SWIM just got finished with a more in-depth bioassay of his product. He used an eye-dropper pipe (a long eye-dropper with copper-mesh jammed inside to act as a heat-sink -- a small version of the "machine". He used maybe 20mg of crystals over 10 minutes, or so he thinks... time became a bit dilated/unimportant. The first drag of the pipe made SWIM feel a bit uneasy, like the oncoming of a panic attack. But since this is how he felt last time he took shrooms in the beginning, he figured it was just the tryptamines doing their magic. He was resisting the body-high (facial flushing, head "enlargement", body fuzzing, etc), but after he got comfortable with it, he took a larger second drag. This time the smoke was a bit less pleasant, but not unbearable. He didn't taste anything until he exhaled, which tasted *exactly like* new shoes. This time SWIM closed his eyes and saw a vague outline of a circular object, rotating slightly. Opening his eyes, he saw no other visual aberrations besides a decrease in depth perception. He felt his ego loosening slightly, and was more easily absorbed into the eternal now. It was pleasant, but not overpowerful. He planned to load up the pipe and do a bit more to see what the visuals were like, but his phone rang, and so SWIM took it as a sign to "hang up the phone" for today. He has some school work to finish, anyways.

In conclusion -- it's definitely pretty pure stuff, and the smoke isn't all that harsh. No burning of the throat or anything, so SWIM suspects any left over lye didn't do much of anything.

-- Wanderer

I'm in the same boat. In fact, I'm thinking I may have to do just one little 30 gram extraction just so I can know how to extract without solvents (except water)

I think an important test will be to pull the leftover tea with some d-limo to see what is left behind.


This is really really cool! It seems like THE way to do this.

would it be possible to do a cold FASW soak for a few days, filter real good, then warm and base with sodium carbanate for a few hours, then chill to 40-33(f) and filter out solids(DMT)? Then wash with water?

Re: Cheeto -- I suppose, but I don't necessarily see a purpose in using fumaric acid at all. The alkaloids are already in salt form, and won't become a fumarate unless they are freebased and extracted from solution beforehand. You could do a freebase->fumarate->freebase to clean whatever product you get, but it's a bit unnecessary in my opinion.

yea....never mind. I see it want work.

I like what I see here so...... I'm gonna jump off into the deep end.

A question to Wanderer-

If one was interested in extracting 500-1000 grams what do you think would be a reasonable ratio MHRB:H2O ?

Do I just add enough to cover it and boil? or ?

Well the magic of this process is that you can always add or boil off water as necessary. But for the initial tea brew, starting with more is usually better IMO. That way you have more *total* alkaloids in solution, but the *concentration* is less. If you plan to re-steep the plant matter for a second extraction, this isn't as big of a factor. I would say enough to cover the plant matter pretty well with some liquid volume to spare, but not so much that filtering it or boiling down is going to take a week

After you've filtered the first brew, you can boil it down to whatever volume you feel is good. As a rule, smaller volume is better here (allows the liquid DMT to crystallize more easily), but you don't want it so thick that it's not going to filter, or too viscous for crystals to form easily. Imagine sort of thick (but fluid) soysauce, or just really, really strong coffee. That consistency worked for SWIM.

Best of luck! Those should be some amazing looking crystals

-- Wanderer

SWIM started 20g of MHRB with Calcium Hydroxide as the base. Did a light boil for maybe 45 minutes or so. He added some extra water at some point in the boil, but as it got to 45 minutes it was already low enough in volume he figured he would just stop there. He let it sit for a bit to settle. It ended up being only like 100-150ml of liquid so he just did the filter of that right to adding the Calcium Hydroxide. He will probably use a bit more water next time, but the size of the pan and only 20g MHRB made it so that it reduces quite a bit while boiling it.

This was stirred and turned more of a very creamy coffee color than deep black. He thinks plenty of Lime was added. PH strips only go up to 10, but they were easily 10 before some more was added. This was left to sit for many hours at room temp and is being moved to the fridge now.

SWIM can see what appears to be crystallization on the top opaque oil like layer. Camera is not good enough to show that. Not as bubbly and clumpy like Dagger's picture, but maybe this is due to lime vs Lye.

I'll update when SWIM has let it sit for more time in the fridge.

Interesting stuff Malaclypse! Thanks for having SWIY look into lime for us.

Looking at the picture you attached, I'm wondering what that white layer at the bottom is, and why the solution isn't blackish? Perhaps the wrong picture was attached?

But indeed! The crystals should start to form on the top of the liquid (and some underneath the surface).

Good work!

Oh you're on your way Dagger! I noticed slow crystalization over the first couple days, but the last couple is when they all sorta just grouped together pretty quickly into large crystals.

Liquid DMT is hydrophobic, and will therefore be unable to suck up any hydroxide ions (I don't think there are any binding sides even available on the molecule for that sort of thing). Nor should the actual crystal structure itself have any lye in it, but small pockets of water might trap some residual lye in aqueous solution. This can be easily remedied by filtering out the crystals and rinsing them with water (you can leave them in the filter and just run a lot of fresh water over them or take them out of the filter and put them in new water; they should stay hydrophobic while any lye will be sucked into solution, then you can simply filter out the clean crystals).