I know I'm on the dmt-nexus.. but from the beginning I felt this was a community that respected all entheogens to a great degree. Lately I've been noticing a strong dmt-elitarianism (not to say this is a recent phenomenon, but only I've noticed it recently) with some members and wanted to ask about it. People are stating that dmt, like no other substance, has this transformative effect on them, healing, revealing, etc. They talk about other entheogens like they are toys or lacking the depth or quality that dmt somehow has.

While I don't want to say dmt is nothing special - because it definitely is special to me - I still can't elevate it above the other two entheogens I've tried so far - shrooms and acid. I've had truly strange, truly transformative, severely harrowing, utterly spiritual, and simply amazing journeys with both of these, and there is just NO WAY I could say that they lack depth or are like *psychedelic candy* or *toys*.

I was wondering how other members felt about this - both about the other entheogens and the attitude of dmt-as-the-holy-grail. Any and all replies are welcome.

cheers & love
Enoon

Hey Enoon!

Oh, here we are on Earth. This place has such a glorious selection of psychoactive molecules for us to imbibe!
I can't help it. There's nothing like N,N-DMT.
High doses of L, shrooms, or a vast plethora of possible synergies...
yes, they are epic, transformative, powerful, important
and so much more-

none of them do what DMT does. Not even close.

It's not that I'm a molecular elitist,
it's just that-
...I've seen what this can do
and I'll never forget it.

It's unique. It's us.

I don't have the words to properly articulate what I'm trying to say.
Those who have had breakthrough experiences with N,N- know
there's no other substance that compares.

I think LSD/psilocybin/mescaline are entheogens which can take you to similar places as DMT can, but using these 3 agents you are going to be in for a long long ride should you take a dose sufficiently large to get you where a 'mere' 30-40mg DMT when vaporised will take you.

DMT is superior to these agents for its directness in getting you to these realms and allowing you to come back in a manageable time-frame.I cannot comment on the oral use of DMT as its something Ive yet to sample.

They are all varying routes to a potentially similar destination-should you take enough of each.There is no meandering or gentle bends with the 'road' that is DMT.

Maybe I'll feel different once I start doing pharma, or aya, but I have gone farther and learned more from my iboga, LSD and mushroom trips than I have from smoking or snorting DMT. It gives me a remarkable feeling, and the most insane visuals I have ever experienced on anything, but it doesn't leave me reveling in insights like I do on the psychedelics where I can stay in the trip and contemplate for hours. Mescaline has been enjoyable for me, but it takes me huge doses, and it usually doesn't leave me with a lot of the insight/revelations like tryptamines.

The DMT flash is remarkable, but it doesn't give me as much useful ammo, that way. I have smoked it a whole bunch, but I don't really have much to bring back except the feeling of being amazed or like I've been let in on some secret (although, I can't quite put my finger on it). I will have to go the oral route with harmalas, I am sure, to get as deep a connection with DMT as I have with other entheogens. Large doses of LSD and mushrooms have changed my life and philosophies the most, and iboga has been probably the most physically healing out of all of them. I think iboga helped give me balance and made my system operate better, so that I could go much deeper with other entheogens. I am thinking that pharma/ayahuasca is going to be the way I can get something more tangible from DMT and it will probably be another very useful, healing entheogen for me.

I think any elitism would be silly. I mean, personally I've had some of the most enlightening life-changing experiences on aya, as well as had my existential notions completely broken down by vaporized dmt, but Ive also had lifechanging experiences on large mushroom and lsd doses.

The fact that a lot of people take mushrooms and lsd in low/mid doses and in social/fun setting is greatly responsible, imo, for them not finding shrooms/lsd as deep as dmt. Personal preferences aside, I think anybody that has consumed puddle doses lsd or strong doses mushrooms (maybe mesc too) and/or in an appropriate setting will also experience an immense power in these substances (not that I recommend these higher doses, for some people it might be too much).

After all of this has been said, I must say that personally, there is something that specially calls my attention to dmt. It has this unique mistery to me which I cant put my finger on. This doesnt take out the beauty and value of the other classic entheogens, I find them all allies that do not compete with each other.

I have to agree with you GD, even though I haven't tried iboga, but the others have been somehow more immersive for me. Vaporized spice has amazed me and has given me sparks of light, brushing wings with the divine, has turned my world upside down etc... but the long trips like lsd and mushrooms have been more integrative and introspective for me, hence making me feel like I've actually gotten some work done.

Pharma I've only tried twice and once didn't work out so well, and the other time it was very short - 2hrs - and yet truly truly beautiful. However the shortness of it still left me feeling like I was only given glimpses, whereas with the other substances I was usually fully immersed and enveloped and permeated by the metamorphosis. I don't know whether this has to do with dosage or my fast metabolism or timing in general. I'm also not saying I can't work with dmt at all, but it's surely different, and so far has not by any means surpassed the other two.

Thanks for your replies so far.

i dont only eat carrots
mu helps digest spice
cactus brings one closer to ones self
all have a use in my house

Well personally, I would say that mushrooms and Iboga have given me more than DMT has (so far).

I can't really imagine one replacing any of the others. They're like a close knit group of friends.

I just eat whatever's going around

Seriously though I hold DMT/Mushrooms/Ayahuasca all in the same regard for internal exploration.

I hold mescaline in a similar light but it's never taken me as deep as the above. I only tried LSD a couple of times, but yeah that certainly aint kids play either.

I think it's important to realise though that having a favourite should not be considered elitist. My favourite colour is blue, that doesn't make me a colour elitist it just means a certain spectrum of light is more appealing to my vision.

I also think it's important not to confuse elitism with passion, though I can understand if someone thinks another persons experience on another substance not being as worth while as their own, a bit small minded.

yeah soulfood, I was aiming the term elitist particularly at the people that claimed lsd was toy, or whatnot - not at people saying they preferred one over the other. I agree with what you said.

thanks again for all the answers.

If people think mushrooms are a joke..they really need to eat more..I dont understand all this either..mushrooms blast me through and hold me there, stuck to the floor for hours.

I have to disagree with almost everything said here.
Especially the statement that none of all the other hallucinogens 'comes even close' ,or that no other substance compares is far beside the truth.

-Firstly: all of the classic hallucinogens have something in common, they all compare and if you had one of them, you have a very good impression what to expect from any other of them, regardless of the differences that are there.
-Secondly: Among the classic hallucinogens, there are several substances that can result in experiences at least as deep, powerfull and profound as n,n-DMT. Maybe even most of those substances. Maybe lysergic's are even the only ones that will fail to take you as far as DMT can take you, but they will take you a long way nevertheless.
-Thirdly: Among the classic hallucinogens that can take you as far as DMT can take you, there are several that can give experiences that are almost identical to what a DMT experience is like, except for onset and duration. Even very experienced users will have difficulty feeling any difference between intraveinously injected psilocin and intraveinously injected DMT. Caapi with shrooms and caapi with chacruna are very hard to distinguish from eachother.

DMT is not more special than most of the hallucinogens. There are other hallucinogens that even surpass DMT in certain aspects. 5-MeO-DMT for instance, is inferiour to DMT in visual effects, but totally dwarfs DMT when it comes to psychological effects.
And again: they all have the same sort of vibe, a strong overlap in effects. The DMT lexicon can without any problem be aplied to most of the other hallucinogens: 'carrier wave', 'stuck in a loop' and entities are common phenomena for almost all of these substances.

Yes. Some shrooms are just very weak. But eat more than 3 grams of copelandia cyanensis or psilocybe azurescens and you won't think they're a joke no more. 3 grams of azurescens is totally equal to 40 mg vaporized DMT and with cyanescens or semilanceata you only need a tiny bit more to have the same effect.

Low amounts of weak cubensis are no indication at all for how powerfull shrooms can be.

To me, they all have their place.

LSD - I love it, I wouldn't say I consider it a toy, but more of a tool. If I had my druthers I'd be on LSD 24/7. It makes the world smile and the dark become light. It is definitely the Love Surge Drug.

DMT - Nothing has gotten me more than what DMT has. And this makes me regard DMT as the most powerful one. I wouldn't say I "learn" more from it, rather, it opens my mind more to the possibilities of more. I just want to live in the world that DMT shows me, so I can view it all instead of having it flash before my eyes like a giant colored fractal strobe.

Mushrooms - I love them, there is nothing that compares to them IMHO. They open up the head and feed it to you. It can be the most intense mind fuck visual epiphany you ever have... it can also be the worst hell you've ever been in. Also LSD can do this as well, I would say not as easily as mushrooms can. One bad thought on mushrooms and if you don't know how to pull yourself out you can be in for a ride to hell.

Harmala's - Mmmmmm just a nice addition to any of them. (Actually only have done with LSD, doing to do with DMT this weekend... but I hear good things ;P)

Iboga - I can't wait to try this.

Mesc - I can't wait to try this either.


I feel each one has its place and ability to help. They are all fun, at least to me, but I wouldn't consider them "toys" either. But I wouldn't "not" be happy and having a fun time taking them either.

Hey Now Folks,

I agree wholeheartedly with this ecumenical and rather familial assessment. They are each, in their own unique way, like the component colors of the rainbow. Each one has the juice to do the job. Like soulfood so eloquently put it, you ARE allowed to have a favorite color and that's cool. It would be insanity to imply that one color is superior, yes? I feel they compliment one another and show something special, that is it's own molecular magic. They all are quite capable of shattering our subjectivity and opening up our awareness to levels of consciousness which we never suspected were possible (yet, somehow remember having known all along).

Rapidity of the onset, the variety and intricacy of the visionary hallucinations, intensity and degree of of dissociation and the length of the experience, varies to a great degree but I have not found that the Spirit Molecule takes me any higher or deeper... it just rockets me there a Hell of a lot faster! KABOOM!!! I do concur with corpus callosum, for issues of manageability, DMT is far more user friendly. Also, it seems that after immersions, there is something still present and perceptible, for a more sustained afterglow. Well, at least in my experiences. that being said, I still believe that mushrooms are my very favoritest of them all. Why so? As endlessness states, on high doses the differences are far outweighed by the similarities. You know... they are all Sacred.

Besides, you can pick psilocybin mushrooms, dry 'em and eat them and BINGO (without high tech procedures and the usage of high profile chemicals). That, however, doesn't mean I am mushroom-centric. I wouldn't want to live in a state of psilocybin, LSD, mescaline or DMT elitarianism (or any other such exclusivity), for what is humankind if not a reflection of nature? So, there are definitive seasons, a full spectrum of colors and parallel pathways, each one harmonizing toward immersion with the EVERYTHINGNESS within this grand universe. Variety is our very provenance, as mere sentient mortals. It's important to realize than there are many roads to the summit and each will get you there in it's own unique pace and measure.

And there is also the wisdom of this pertinent colloquialism, "Variety is the Spice of life" (pun most definitely intended). Say no more?

Peace, love & light

Ayahuasca is something special to me, in a way, because it taught me how to speak with other plants.

I would not be having the mushroom voyages I'm having right now, that are on par with DMT and Ayahuasca, had Ayahuasca not broken open my skull, first. I was taught to tune in and listen.

I do, however, feel like I relate to and have much more business with tryptamines/harmalas than with other entheogens. They suit me and my weirdness.

hahaha MInxx so true..

I feel too, have learned a lot from my first mushrrom voyage, then salvia, then lsd and all ...
Now after the light of dmt breakthrough I could relate differently to say lsd/panther cap breakthrough..

But there is nothing ultimate, you see already from 5Meo dmt, some claims it's the ultimate thing or it could be bufotenin...

It's great to have access to a pleiade of entheogens like we do now.
It's just true blessing to feel comfortable in some other realms and coming back more positive and loving than ever !