Hi there,

I am just wondering if anyone here has considered the possibility that the beings/entities that we encounter on our respective journeys may not be as well intentioned as we have all come to believe. From what I have read on this forum, I have not read postings from anyone that has raised this question. Everyone seems to trust them blindly.

I mean sure, they may SEEM to be loving, caring, enlightening, truth-telling beings, but what if they are not? What if they are deceivers. We are dealing with all-powerful beings of the spirit world, of which we know very little about. It is not outside the realm of possibility that they can, indeed, fake being loving, caring, enlightening...etc All we really know about them is what they tell us. I know there are dark spirits there (hyperspace) and light ones too. What if the light spirits are not light at all, but it is all just cosmic trickery. What if they are ALL dark and some just pretend to be light in order to deceive us.

We, as mere humans, have no way to differentiate between the two. I know some of you have "spirit protectors" in that world, but what if they too, are deceptors. They may have all the knowledge of the universe and may impart it to us, but what if the knowledge that they impart to us are lies with grains of truth. The best lies are based on truth.

They are so much greater than we are and we are so insignificant to them. What if we are just their cosmic "pets"? Most of us play tricks on our pets sometimes, but we love them too. However, in the end, few of us would bend over backwards to enlighten our pets. Think of a pet gerbil. It's cool to play with, but ultimately it will end up in a shoe boe burried in the backyard and most of us wouldn't even lose sleep over it. What if this is what we are to them?

I approach the all-powerful entities of the other world with the greatest of skepticism. This topic is not about the "trickster" that Mckenna (I think it was) mentioned, I am talking about the bigger picture. What if the trickster is also part of the elaborate joke/deception. From what I have experienced and read, there are three (basic) types of entities. The good, the bad, and the trickster. Is it not possible that they are all the SAME being, portraying different personas, even when there multiples of them/him/her/it? It is well within their/It's capibilities to do so.

I have experienced some things that are undeniable truth. I know this. Things that I cannot question because of the sheer and utter undeniable truth. I have also experienced what you may call great revelations (from what seem to be the good guys) about the universe and life that I have no way of knowing (without trusting them) whether or not there is more than a grain of truth in it. This is what I am refering to.

What if they are purposely leading us down the wrong path? -purposely decieving us. What if they ALL serve the great deceptor? What if they ALL ARE the great deceptor. If you all believe there is an omnipotent being that we call God, then surely you must believe in the polar opposite. Balance, Kharma, Yin/Yang...etc. There is no way you can know what you are dealing with for sure - that much is truth.

We travel a perilous road for sure.

Just food for thought - Your opinions are most welcome

Your post reveals much more about you and your present state of mind than it does about hyperspace entities. If you believe, while under the influence of DMT, that you are being tricked and deceived, if you believe that “god” has a simple dualistic good/evil nature, and if you believe that you are just as likely to encounter evil as you are to encounter good, then why do you choose to put yourself under the influence of DMT?

They are You.

Well, that is not entirely accurate Gibran2. My intention was not to "reveal" anything about hyperspace entities. Also I do not "believe" that I am being tricked nor do I necessarily believe any of the questions that I have raised. I was merely trying to induce thought in the minds of the readers (apparently I failed), who seem to take everything they encounter in hyperspace at face value. To do so is fallacy. Also I never said that God is dualistic, I suggested that maybe what we perceive as god in that realm is not god at all, but instead a darker being masquerading as god. Who are we to tell the difference? And of course we are just as likely to encounter evil as we are good in hyperspace. (though for me, mine tend to be about 90% light and about 10% dark). If you haven't considered these possibilities then why would YOU put YOURSELF under the influence of DMT? Just trying to raise awareness that us simpletons can be deceived by higher beings. Many people never stop to question the intentions of these beings as they are spreading their vast knowledge and information. People should at least consider not taking the information at face value and ask why they are being shown what they are being shown - to what end.

Also, I apologize if I sounded rude, but that needed to be said. I sincerely thank you for your input.

That is one perspective. Perhaps you are right... perhaps not. Ever thought about it? Thanks for your input. Anybody else? keep 'em comin'.

I guess we have a fundamental disagreement about what hyperspace is and what it isn’t.

I believe that the concepts/abstractions you mention – evil, deceit, trickery – and many other related concepts that you didn’t mention are not “universal”. They are abstractions created by living, suffering human beings in an effort to explain the human condition.

You seem to believe that these manmade abstractions are universally applicable, even in realms where mortality and physicality don’t seem to exist. I don’t believe that’s the case.

Concerning being wary about accepting at face value whatever is presented to you during a DMT experience, I agree. It is possible, maybe even probable, that if we choose to interpret our experiences, we may misinterpret them. Since most of my experiences tend to be very alien and uninterpretable, I generally don’t even try to interpret them.

Yes, that is correct.

Maybe this will clear some things up. I was raised in a Christian family and, though I do not regularly attend church, I still believe in the fundamental concepts of Christianity. I believe there is a Heaven and Hell, good and evil, God and Satan and a spirit world. I do not believe that they are man made abstractions. I do believe they are universally applicable.

Thus, deriving from these beliefs, I believe there is good and evil here in human land as well as good and evil in the spirit land. If these concepts are true (which I believe they are), then when you open yourself up to the spirit world through the use of psychedelics, you open yourself to the good as well as evil. But, as I said previously, who are we to differentiate? My logic leads me to the conclusion that I must take everything I am shown with a grain of salt and examine all aspects of the visions before drawing any conclusions (that is, if any conclusions can be drawn from them at all). It is not hard to deceive humans such as us. Be wary indeed of all that you are shown lest you be made to believe something which is not true.

Again, I am really just trying to induce thought in those who have been in this place, seen visions and obtained knowledge but who have not given any consideration as to where it truly came from and what the intentions of the teacher truly are.

My beliefs are not the same as yours. That’s OK.

However, if I believed in a reality that included universal good and evil, a reality where our manmade abstractions were universal, a reality where malevolent beings are intent on tricking me and deceiving me, I probably wouldn’t use DMT.

I would. To me it is part of the fun, part of the ride, part of the experience. As long as it is not taken literally.

Really? That's the sense you get from reading this site? Somtimes I wonder if certain people here are reading a different site. From what I've read, most people here seem to be quite skeptical of whether entities exist as anything other than projections of ones own mind. When I see posts coming from the minority who take entities more literally, they are usually thoroughly criticized. And thus far no one has responded and argued against your assertion that "everyone seems to trust them blindly". That is, no one has come farward and said, "I trust the entities and here's why". The reason they aren't coming forward is because I don't think there's many out there. I certainly don't think they're the majority, and they're definitely not everyone.

Also, I don't think I've ever even come across a person who "trusts dmt entities blindly". That is, I have never heard anyone say that entities gave them any specific message, thus there is nothing to trust. The messages that people seem to get from hyperspace are more encompassing messages, such as, "love", or "be happy to be alive". I've haven't read of any specific transmission of information that would even warrant trust. Never read a report such as, "entities told me to buy a Ford instead of a Toyota, so that's what I'm going to do because I trust the entities". The communication with these supposed "entities" seems to be on an emotional level, not on a level of worldly knowledge.

People do have altered perceptions of the world and of self while under the influence, and thus, people's opinions and world view can be changed from use. That is what happens naturally when one experiences new content. However, when specifically talking about messages received by the phenomenon we call "entities", most people don't seem to trust, or not trust them. The whole discussion on entities seems like one big speculation with no answer, and this very thread is an example of that speculation. You ask if these entities are well intentioned. In order to even speculate on that, one has to assume that these entities even exist, and I think half or more people here aren't certain they exist at all. I think there are a lot of people here who have experienced entities, yet are not prepared to make any definite claim on them either way. The ones who do believe can only speculate.

ya know i've asked these questions myself.. and for me,,, i'm actually being taught how to trust in the universe and trust in life and light... just like Apoc was saying... we're taught about love ... what being with malicious intent would teach us how to arise into our full being.. it's my understanding that this huge deceiver would deceive one into believing that the universe isn't founded on love... that love is a deceit ...

in fact... just tonight swim interacted with some type of being tonight.. called the being god and came to realization that it wasn't god and the being was very glad and excited for swim's realization.. if the being had malicious intent wouldn't it have wanted swim to believe that it were God and not here to help swim learn... in fact this very entity is helping swim to get past fear and anxiety..to go further into knowledge, wisdom, and understanding.. it's quite amazing and profound

it's definitely good to question things.. but one can't get to the point to where you don't have trust in anything... questioning all things all the time gets into the brain and can plant rotten seeds

I think it quite possible that anything found on earth
Can be found throughout the universe in different forms
And fantastic variation .
It is my understanding that the basic chemical elements
We have on earth are common and found throughout the
Known observable universe stretching millions
of light years in all directions.

I think the question as to whether dmt is bad for us or the
Entities have some diabolical evil intentions for us is not
Unreasonable . When you examine how limited our understanding
Of this phenomenon really is .

That being said one can only examine the reverberations these experiences have
In this reality . To me that's the only test we have right now .
I feel that dmt has helped and not hindered my life. Only positive things have
Come from my many years of journeying . The love I have bathed in the wondrous things
I have seen and felt have only strengthened and expanded my consciousness . The wonder
And amazement I have in this reality is ever expanding. I strive for better relationships
With people and feel fortunate to be alive and have the opportunities to experience all things
Including the process of becoming a better person.
I don't believe preconceptions and belief systems can be applied to the dmt experience
We need to build a new set of belief systems .
Our expanding consciousness is an inevitability that will come whether we want it to or not
I believe the dmt experience is a glimpse of what it will be like to be the next incarnation of human .

after reading this tread i will take a quote from felnik as an example, in comparison to the begining of the tread compared to this comment i think it realy shows the duality of our speices... it realy depneds what your puting out there..
the old saying hate generates hate... Love generates Love.

after 16 years of trips i have learnt its about my own frame of mind when aproaching it...
the journey will often mirror my own emotional stance.... if i show fear and hate then the journey often mirrors my energy and the way i reasonte so i have that experiance...

what i am tryin to get at here is maybe the entites we encouter are non-duality.. the only reason they become a lovely enligthening experience or a dark hatful experience is because what we are signaling to them.. how we resonate attracts the experiance we have...

think of it this way, maybe they are non-dualistic..

they just relate to the way we go in there,

if we are non-judgemental then they are neutral allies of man kind healing us and teaching us ...

i think the people who tend to have very loving and enlighting experiances, it shows alot about the character of that person...

smile and the world smiles with you ....


(also set and settings, other people contribute too, but thats another story)

For a moment let's assume that they are malevolent and deceptive. What is the deception? Where is the harm? What path could this be we're on that's bad? I am asking what is the result of the malevolence? Now let's look people who use DMT and psychedelics. I understand that many psychedelic users become more conscious of their actions, their behaviour towards others and the environment. They share the general concerns of the betterment of humanity and the planet. It doesn't make sense to me that something that is malevolent would catalyze positive change in our behaviours.

I agree with you elf machine, I have often thought about the long term effects that not just DMT but all psychedelics have caused me to go through. I now have such a greater concern for my body and soul, but the biggest change has been how I treat my fellow humans, the way I treat my earth, and the urge to learn about other cultures than my own, mainly past civilizations and tribal culture.

Hi Wave Rider, thank you for the wonderful post! I'm sorry that these forums aren't the easiest places to talk about such massive ideas. At least for now.


To muse directly on your excellent post: we have no choice.
It may very well be that we are walking down the paths of great deception in dealing with Entities. Indeed we are too dumb to know. Likewise, how do you have any proof that I am your ally? That rather than some friendly guy laying on his couch in sweatpants, I am some NSA or DEA agent in Washington DC typing this for fun as I map IP addresses?!


Anyways, if we believe They exist, and from their interactions with us we deem them very advanced, then we must believe that They are tremendously ethical, as economics and social history shows us time and time again, that to develop and sustain growth--ethical practices must be in place. However, the scale of Their Ethical practices might not line up with ours, as it could be conceivable that They could lead someone to great tragedy if it served some greater benefit They deemed appropriate...


Also, on a philosophical level--I believe that we have no choice but to trust our perceptions on face value. Sure we may question and probe these perceptions, and i think it's healthy and wise to do so, but at the end of the day all we have is an uncertain faith in the accuracy of what we sense no matter what side of Hyperspace we sit.
Although I'm sure many would disagree with me on this....


all the best,
a

From my understanding, your idea derives from the idea that DMT is some sort of "spirit molecule" (seems like the appropriate term). Personally, I believe that DMT causes a reaction in the brain and not some tool to take you to other dimensions. So, therefor I conclude that the entities you encounter are figments of your imagination.

With this being said, I think that everything that you see resembles your thoughts. However, I think one can most definitely learn from mind expansion and that these entities can teach you things that need to be presented to you from deep in your sub-conscious or imagination.

i wouldnt be so quick to cast judgement on DMT or other plant allies and there power to take you places. if you limit your thinking you become limited instead of limitless

Perhaps it is a little quick to judge but I'm one to believe in logic. It seems more logical that it reacts with your brain seeing how that is what most drugs do and every other psychedelic. Although it is interesting that it's naturally in plants and humans.

If you haven’t already read it, you might find this interesting:

The Improbability of Hyperspace