I am wondering if harmalas (or a lot of spice) tend to cause others a lot of gut-squeezing or belly-energy that has to be forced out, especially after the peak of an experience?

My two pharma trips have ended this way...one was somewhat controllable and the other - not so much. I have also had this experience several times with vaped spice, but I cannot recall now whether those times included caapi leaves/changa or were just BIG spice trips.

I generally enjoy the vocalizing, grunting, and groaning...especially when I can work with it and clear out negative life stuff with them. The problem, however, is that I end up with a headache afterward. It's like I had been yelling WAY too much at a football game and got a headache...or had to grunt way too much while trying to poop

So...any ideas on how to prevent those types of headaches? I do my best to breathe in a lot of oxygen and drink water if possible. Any other herbs to mix in for this?

Thanks so much for any suggestions!!!

I've experienced this before with mushrooms. One spring I was taking a trip probably 2 - 3 times a week, and this would happen often. With large doses and when I was alone. It felt great to get it out, like you said, you can clear out some of the negative crap while doing this.

I didn't experience headaches though...

I'm a big metal fan and I'm constantly screaming with that music while sober, so maybe that's why my head didn't feel like it was going to explode after wards

I'm not much help, sorry.

SWIM has twice had a lingering headache from rue tea. Cleaning up rue with manske helped.
Anyone else solved this problem?
L

My personal issue with the headaches is not caused by the rue itself...it's from the stomach tightening. The grunting and groaning is similar to tightening your stomach very quickly and as hard as you can to absorb a punch in the stomach...but not just once...it's many, many times. Or sometimes it comes out as a hard cough. Eventually, there is a pressure in my head from it if it goes on for too long. Same thing happens to me if I yell and scream at a sporting event or concert too much. I seem to be rather prone to this I have done an internet search on it and haven't found any preventative suggestions yet, but was hoping someone on here might have figured something out.

I guess one option is to find a way, if possible, to move the energy in another way. That might be much easier said than done, however ;-) I have found some breathing pattern tricks to try on a birthing page so I'll try those if possible next time as well.

SWIM is a cautious beginner in the realm of pharmahuasca. She suspects SWIY is speaking of journeys of greater intensity than she has experienced... that said...
Breathing is important for her - it might help to focus on breathing not as a "trick" but as an essential link to moderating the experience. Depth of oxygen metabolism, returning solidly to one's core (dantien).
Movement is important - if able, she stands at times, shaking out her body and rotating her joints (chansigong).
She has consistently experienced a reflex to stand and vigorously shake at the tail of a vape journey - very exhilarating and useful.
Best,
L

The stomach grunting happens to SWIM every time on Aya. She loves it, though has never had a headache develop. She has pulled abdominal muscles during it though.

LOL , I have been doing all the above and yet more for far too many years now . Anytime I enter into a deep altered state, even if just by using meditation . I would get pounding headaches after. Nothing would stop them , so I gave up and lived with them .

One day venturing with a herb, a thought popped into my head , "Ask whazup with the headaches ?" to who, or whatever is there ,so I did . Before I could verbalize the question I got an answer..

Long story short , I was told "I am absorbing too much energy and this is causing my headaches ". I didn't know at the time , but I was about to be taught about "grounding" .

This is a subject unto itself , which for time sake , I cannot currently get into .

I offer this experience as a possible avenue for you to look into . I hope it may be of some assistance .

@ljosalfar - Thanks for the breathing and movement tips. I do like to gyrate my body around during trips when I can and will see if I can move the energy out this way if possible.

@deweeb - if you are talking about alchemical/mental grounding cords...I am familiar and use them frequently. My wife was able to ground a ton of energy through me by holding hands during one of her hard trips...I will give this a shot next time as well. I hadn't thought to give that an intentional try while voyaging myself. Thanks for the suggestion! I haven't got the headaches from meditation alone yet, but I get them if I use cannabis and meditate. I have to modulate the amount of energy I get in my head/brow chakra area. On cannabis, however, I can maneuver the energy at will somewhat easily, and can move it down to the root chakra or wherever.

Does anyone suggest either a vasodilator/vasoconstrictor herb or vitamin of some kind? Am I getting too much blood to my brain during these grunts...popping vessels or something???

A cup of coffee often helps migraine sufferers, especially if they catch the headache right as it starts - caffeine is a vasoconstrictor. Not sure of possible interactions with aya or spice, but one cup might help?
L

@Ljosalfar - the Ayahuasca.com forums say to avoid "large quantities" of caffeine the day before/after an MAOI...so maybe a cup would be okay and help...thanks.

I remember Ms_Manic_Minxx talking about using theobromine with aya, and I think I read fractal suggesting it be used to counter the vasoconstriction of bufotenine.

When using a crude rue extract a couple of times I've had an intense cramping in my gut and if I relaxed completely it would go away but it's still not at all desirable for myself.

I've never had this with ayahuasca or with a rue extract that has been super purified.