yes, you're right. Ayahuasca is not the same as DMT.

But ayahuasca probably has much more complex pharmacological effects, making it even more difficult to realy predict what the effects could be on the unborn child. I think it probably is less likely to do damage, but it's just a gues.

Considering how powerfull ayahuasca is, it is hard to imagine that it would have no effects at all.

It seems like this thread has been fairly covered, but I will say, regarding DMT in particular, that it is documented to have a profound effect, although short lived, on a number of key hormones, with sudden spikes in blood levels. Pregnancy runs on hormonal cycles, and I think directly interfering with your brains/body's hormonal systems while pregnant could be risky...even if the risk is 0.001%...for your unborn child...is that risk worth it? Ayahuasca is a different matter perhaps, but I'm not going to reopen that can of worms.

^^Yeah but this is an entirely avoidable and unnecessary risk, however slight. There's a difference.

I think everything about us is regulated by hormonal cycles isnt it?..this isnt just exclusive to pregnancy. We are not developing though in the same way as a fetus I guess..but if you throw off a hormonal cyclce in a negative way you would think it would still have negative effects on a person, fetus or adult. I read once that women cant even have children living a certan depth in caves, because the hormonal cycles are regulated to an extent by solar energies that we are exposed to on the surface.

Well the 0.001% is a complete estimate. The truth is no one knows...so why take that risk? There is seemingly nothing to gain and possibly much to lose. That's all I'm trying to say.

My friend and I always joke about if we ever get a girl pregnant we are going to make sure she smokes DMT while she is pregnant. We want to see if the baby comes out levitating with a third eye.

Again this is just us joking, I'm not a Dr and don't know if it would be harmful or not so I wouldn't recommend trying it. I have however read some studies on the merits of smoking cannabis while pregnant that were pretty interesting.

probably the best anyone can do with this question is take a guess based on whatever experience we have, as colored by our knowledge and opinions. So I'll feel free to chime in on that basis:

DMT is known to be produced by our bodies and - while not yet proven - may well be found to play a role in dreams and other states that happen naturally.....which suggests that DMT is already getting into fetal bloodstreams on its own. And, from what I've read, a few small amounts of alcohol and even cannabis don't seem to push a fetus in the wrong direction (though there is not unanimity on that, and there may be some qualifications regarding the trimester of the pregnancy).

So my guess would be that so long as the mother is having a good experience with aya (most likely with smaller rather than larger doses) the fetus is likely to not suffer. Conceivably, it could even be a positive thing. But most likely not so if the mother is having a bad experience.

But, there are two risks here: you can't control the nature of your aya experience, and you don't FOR SURE know what happens to the fetus. Probably mankind won't know the answer to that question for a very long time...no government funding or earmarks for that one!

So it still comes down to how much risk you want to take. Even a social glass of wine or a cigarette amounts to a risk.

on a side note haven't harmalas or at least rue been used to cause spontaneous abortions? i know its not actual dmt but figured id mention that

^ YES...there are alkaloids in rue that can end a pregnancy.

Besides the spiking of blood pressure, the possible hormonal spikes, it just doesn't seem right to me to use mind altering substances while pregnant. Personally, I think it's wrong to smoke dmt while pregnant.



While my wife was pregnant I quit almost everything along with her just to ease her discomfort.

I wanted to give my child the best possible opportunity he could have in life.

Great topic. I have read about DMT mixes, mescalin mixes and I think mushroom mixes done by pregnant women in different shamanic society's through out history.
a link that mentions mescaline use by pregnant women
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:49pWnLI_JjsJ:www.fortlewis.edu/anthro/ethnobotany/Dbase/images/Documents/PEYOTE_AND_PREGNANCY.htm+hopi+indians+mescaline+pregnant&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com

Many of use work on having the best intent with our actions and advice. However, sometimes we give opinions that are not backed by any fact. So they are an opinion and we have many.

DMT is not the same chemical as cocaine so the analogy of effects on a fetus holds no water.

One could argue that dry birthing( vs water birthing) is bad for the development of a child and its psychology.

I don't understand why you should mess with it by overflowing it with a neurotransmitter.

Thats a very interesting subject matter, why not boost dmt levels?
There seems to be something profound about this particular neurotransmitter.

And it only happens to chemical cousins of seretonin. Well modern psychiatrists believe promoting serotonin blocking agents is the way to alleviate depression in adults. So who's to say the igestion of DMT wouldnt be a benificial step towards evolving a happier more imaginative kid.

I know its not my body but it is my seed. I feel if mothers can carry a pregnancey to fullterm while being maintained with methadone and have only mild side effects for the newborns, then why cant I play a hand in giving this seed the gift of contact with truely alien beings? Are you mad?

contact with true alien beings according to... ?

plus, what is "only mild effects to newborns" ? And who has the right to say that the 'mild effects' are worth it, considering its not one's life but of a new person being born who's whole life can be conditioned by what the pregnant mother does ?

Would your conscience really be so at ease risking it if it was your own child? As others said, nobody truely knows what can happen, and considering how much potentially negative impact it could have, even if chances are low, I dont feel like I would be in a moral position to decide its worth it for the newborn.

Better imo to just have a healthy non-drug pregnancy and raise the child well so that he/she can eventually decide what to do with their lives regarding substances.

I agree with you infundibulum. Better safe than sorry. There are no conclusive facts to rule out that DMT or ayahuasca may do harm, so why even POTENTIALLY fuck with something as immesurably precious as a Life in the Making? Can the pregnant lady in question not just wait with using DMT until after she gave birth to her child?


PS:
However I wonder, Infundibulum, what makes you say Daime are a Wacko cult? I have joined a ceremony and drank ayahuasca with them and it was a very enlightening experience, allthough when it comes to ANY religious group I allways bare in mind I MAY just be dealing with a cult. Any reasons for you to call them a "wacko cult"? Any first hand or second hand experience with Daime?

According to Frank Herbert, spice accelerates pregnancy, is extremely dangerous to the body and can very well result in death.

Drinking the "Water of Life" while pregnant may prematurely awaken one's child to consciousness and result in succumbing to madness and possession... even in the case of Adepts.

dang it, ms manic. I viewed this thread with the sole purpose of saying exactly that... but you beat me I can add to it though!

This is what happens when you smoke spice while pregnant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alia_Atreides

Of course it could be dangerous and harmful. Anything we don't have specific data on is risky.

But I think the real question is: could it be beneficial? We don't know. If it turns out that it does benefit development then there would be a good reason for the mother to do it. What if it can kick off the next stage of cognitive evolution?

Not that we should start testing on humans, probably rats then apes. But if women are already doing it or more than willing, then ongoing long term studies should be done. No need to torture innocent animals if people are already doing it.

I could not say this any better. There is no doubt that if you smoke DMT while pregnant that the fetus nervous system will also be effected. That's just wrong.

Tell your friend NOT to do this. In fact I'd go so far as to say that if your friend doesn't see this as a no-brainer then she should consider giving the baby up for adoption. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but the thought of a pregnant woman exposing a fetus to a drug like DMT is disturbing enough to me that I have to question whether that person can put aside their petty self interests in the world and actually raise a child.

Well..for one thing the diame tries to treat homosexuality as a disease they can cure with ayahuasca...not too loving and tolerant I think.

Ok, but really..how many people go eat processed foods, mcdonalds, puss and blood filled dairy products and other toxic foods while pregnant? Surely those things will all effect the development of the nervous system of the fetus as well..So unless all pregnant people are willign to undertake rigerous dietary practices that promote exreme levels of internal hygene I think alot of people are unfit to have children going by the standars set forth in your post.

And again..there is no evidence of any damage so far to infants born in the diame to mothers who drink ayahuasca..so your first statement is more a personal bias than anything related to scientific fact, is it not?

I am sure oral DMT would be more suitable though, like the diame using ayahuasca..with smoking there is such a rapid change in blood pressure and acceleration of the heartbeat that it might cause some stress..

Until we have any evidence to suggest otherwise, I think that people that outright assume this is dangerous are doing the same thing as people who post pseudoscience claims here..without a source to backup a claim it is really just personal speculation or bias.

The title of this thread really makes it look like it escaped from the "Elite dawgz area"