We've Moved! Visit our NEW FORUM to join the latest discussions. This is an archive of our previous conversations...

You can find the login page for the old forum here.
CHATPRIVACYDONATELOGINREGISTER
DMT-Nexus
FAQWIKIHEALTH & SAFETYARTATTITUDEACTIVE TOPICS
Haoma and Harmaline (Flattery & Schwartz 1989) Options
 
Entropymancer
#1 Posted : 1/14/2011 6:56:57 AM

DMT-Nexus member

Salvia divinorum expert | Skills: Information Location, Salvia divinorumExtraordinary knowledge | Skills: Information Location, Salvia divinorumModerator | Skills: Information Location, Salvia divinorumChemical expert | Skills: Information Location, Salvia divinorumSenior Member | Skills: Information Location, Salvia divinorum

Posts: 1367
Joined: 19-Feb-2008
Last visit: 12-Jun-2016
Location: Pacific Northwest
Link: http://books.google.com/books?id=INtzYGQOlFoC&printsec=frontcover

I just noticed that the University of California Press has been generous enough to allow the book Haoma and Harmaline to be read in its entirety at Google Books. You can't download it as a pdf, but reading it online is at least better than shelling out $800 for a copy... it's over 20 years old, out of print, and almost no one who has a copy wants to get rid of it, so the only other way to read it is at good university libraries, which not everyone has access to.

The reader should be forewarned that the overarching goal of the book is to argue that syrian rue is the true original identity of the ancient Aryan soma... a thesis which is hardly borne out by their evidence.

Flattery & Schwartz use the Avesta as their primary source for considering the identity of soma/haoma (the two words are etymologically identical, the former coming from the Indian branch and the latter from the Iranian branch of Proto-Indo-Iranian). And from the Avesta, they place a particular emphasis on Yasna 9, 10, and 11... texts whose origins have been estimated to be some time roughly in the two centuries preceding the birth of Christ (which puts them at least a millennium later than the Vedas).

Further, Flattery weakens their argument by equating ayahuasca brews (complete with DMT-containing admixture plants, tobacco juice, and coca) with the effects of syrian rue alone, and uses features of South American ayahuasca traditions as supposed points of correspondence with the haoma tradition. And as Jonathan Ott has pointed out, the book really ought to have been titled "Haoma and Harmine", since harmine is generally present in substantially greater quantities than harmaline in rue... a fact that you would expect Flattery to have noticed when doing his research for the book.

But in spite of all of its shortcomings and factual errors, the book really is worth a read. If you filter out the central hypothesis, it provides a fresh perspective for considering the question of ancient Aryan soma (after all, the Vedic portion is really only half of the story). The role of syrian rue in Persian folk religion is also quite intriguing regardless of its potential connection to the soma complex. And the book does provide information that convincingly argues (at least to my mind) that syrian rue quite probably became employed as a substitute for the original sacrament at some point in time (though perhaps not universally employed as such), and includes a great deal of useful data about the known substitutes (predominantly non-psychoactive) that have been used over the years).


As ever, the fundamental question of the identity of soma appears to remain insoluble. I'm personally inclined to believe that it was a species of ephedra, though I don't dare to hope there will ever be enough evidence on which to confirm or deny that suspicion.
 

Live plants. Sustainable, ethically sourced, native American owned.
 
Ljosalfar
#2 Posted : 1/14/2011 9:07:13 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 328
Joined: 17-Sep-2010
Last visit: 30-Apr-2020
Location: Pacific Northwest
Nothing to add, save a thank you very much!
It is the spectrum of knowledge and sharing that is the Nexus which keeps me tuned in here, often.
An outstanding summary!
L
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool." Richard P. Feynman
 
sonofsnow
#3 Posted : 1/15/2011 5:55:38 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 72
Joined: 27-Mar-2010
Last visit: 03-Oct-2011
Location: deep in the woods
Thanks for sharing.

I would like to ad regardles if P.harmala is in fact soma/haoma or not.

That when practitioners in parts of Islam talk about Haoma they refer to Peganum Harmala.
Many of these practitioners especially from the Persian branch. Use Harmala as tea togheter with
dhikr(is an Islamic spiritual Practise wich commonly involves repetition of gods name) a mantra if you will.
If we look at religons and spirituality this is often a commen practis either in the form of repeating gods name or in the form of breathing exercises like meditation.
Dhikr is also a way of controlled breathing. When you are preforming Dikhr it shall be preformed in a special way.(See Image)

Another thing that have been speculated(or has it been scientifically proven?) is that DMT is produced in the lungs. Can anyone confirm if this is true?

If it should be a fact that DMT is produced in the lungs, I find it possible that controlled breathing exercises may highten the content of DMT in lungs or body.

Now... lets just say breathing exercises like dhikr induce DMT production in the human lungs or body.
Then I find it could be possible that by ingesting MAOI and preforming dhikr you could get a "trip".

So you might only need the MAOI the DMT can be self produced by controlled breathingWink

Dhikr - Upward beams indicating inhalation and downward beams indicating exhalation







sonofsnow attached the following image(s):
Dhikr_hadrah_articulation.PNG (9kb) downloaded 97 time(s).
The things that IS has a meaning,
but it`s what IS NOT that make them usefull
 
 
Users browsing this forum
Guest

DMT-Nexus theme created by The Traveler
This page was generated in 0.020 seconds.