I have been experimenting with spice for about 5 months now. About 15-20 vapes and about 3 aya journeys and I am still not sure if I have broken through. There are a couple of times that I experienced what I think were breakthroughs but I am not sure. Somehow I believe that these times in question were not real authentic breakthroughs. I have had many mind blowing, earth shattering, profound, awesome, time-of-my-life experiences but I do not know whether or not they were breakthroughs. It is still the most fun I've ever had on any substance (or sober for that matter). I guess I just want to know "How do you know?" "Is there more?" or "How deep does it really get?" I'd be happy to elaborate if asked, but I realize this is not a trip report thread, thus my report is not included.

I know different people will tell you different things, but the way that I define a breakthrough is an out of body experience

Sub-breakthroughs can be more “fun” than breakthroughs – in fact I wouldn’t call most of my breakthroughs fun at all – they’re much deeper. I can’t tell you what a breakthrough is like, but here are a few things you might think and do while returning from a breakthrough:

--- You might drop to your knees with tears streaming down your face and say “thank you” over and over.

--- You might realize that there are words whose meaning you thought you knew, but didn’t really come to know until your breakthrough. Words like “gratitude”, “love”, “communion”, “tranquility”, and “beauty”.

--- After experiencing what you experienced, you might wonder, with a certain amount of fear, how you’ll ever be able to function again in “normal” society.

--- You might return to your body and find it strangely confining.

--- After a difficult breakthrough, you might not want to have a breakthrough ever again.

Concerning your questions “is there more?” and “how deep does it really get?” here’s how I answer: Yes, there is more. And it goes very deep. If you keep at it, it’s possible to go too deep. I asked that same question – I was very curious about how deep it goes. And then I found out, and I’ve been avoiding a deep breakthrough for almost 7 months now.

Very well put Gilbran. Thank you. That is exactly the answer I was looking for. Anybody else have anything they would like to add?

I'm thinking it's one of those "you'll know it when it happens" kind of deals.

I would personally describe a breakthrough as one would describe an orgasm, in that, you don't know you've had one UNTIL you've had one, and then you KNOW you've had one! hehe

I remember when we were younger we were always like 'Have u had one yet?", "Not sure, I think I had one last night!" "omg, really?" etc etc, so unsure, and then once we DID have one it was like AHHHHHHHHHH HAHAHAH OMFG!!!!!!! HOW dumb was I before! Type of awakening to the reality awareness of what an orgasm REALLY was! For me spice breakthrough was the same way. I was like 'was that it? did I just breakthrough?' but then once it happened, it was like EURRKA! :-D

It took me err 3 spice sessions before I broke through I think, it can take a while to get used to how to get the dose into you and just the feelings and logistics of it, until you can kind of will yourself to slip into the breakthrough, that's how it was for me anyways. Hope that helps in some way

I dunno about all of you, but I stumbled upon the orgasm by sheer accident. I had no idea what one was, and I was like, "what the fuck was that?"

In my opinion, no one can define a breakthrough specifically for anyone else.

But, speaking in general terms, at least for me personally, I have distilled it down to this simple definition.


A breakthrough, regardless of the substance involved as catalyst, is a convincing, immersive, 3-dimensional experience.

What he said

For me it's when I leave this reality completely. I forget about my existence here. And then I come back and I have to re-member this life. And the fact I smoked DMT.

Re-memebr, excellent

As if the body had been dis-membered from you!

I seem to generally experience the same thing anytime i take DMT, with higher doses it just gets more & more powerful, anymore & i just black out

I think that my meditation breakthroughs have been so powerful that when i breakthrough on DMT i don't ever consider it a breakthrough, i like the comparison to orgasm, as on a high doses i get the rigor mortis that an orgasm can give me, where every muscle in the body totally tenses then totally relaxes, the shaking, sweating etc... although again, my meditation breakthroughs are WAY better than any orgasm i've ever had, more like a cosmic never ending orgasm, no multiple orgasms, just one orgasm lasting for eternity with no beginning or end.

yup


Also, as far as re-membering, I find when I break through, on many occasions, I have been filled with knowledge that I inevitably forget when I return to this plane of existence, but upon returning to hyperspace, I remember that knowledge and realize how much I forget every time I return to this plane.

im still unsure if i have yet, so by the looks of things its a no. not to worried about it, it will come im sure! ^ this however rings very true!

One thing I’d like to add is that a breakthrough is not entirely dose-dependent. Of course, there is a minimum dose below which you are very unlikely to have a breakthrough, but taking a dose above that minimum breakthrough dose doesn’t make it any more likely (at least in my experience). They come when they come.

This. Also, changa seems to discourage breakthroughs for SWIM, needing quite a bit more to get there while sublingual harmals seem to encourage it.

Well thanks everyone for your input. Upon considering all of your advice, I think that one of my rides was a breakthrough. What I was a little confused about was that, although more profound, my breakthrough experience was considerably less fun than some of my sub-breakthroughs. I have a friend (who has dosed hundreds of times) who tells me about his breakthroughs and they sound like they would be more fun than sub-breakthroughs. But, knowing that results are not typical on this drug, I wanted to get a second opinion. Thanks guys!

SWIM just had a good one. Took 200mgs of peganum Harmala extract orally. waited 2 hours then smoked 1 small hoot. Best breakthrough so far. Orally worked better than sublingually.

This was the first time SWIM heard the noise. or More like some kind of weird tribal electronic music that the sprites were dancing to while they taught, poked and teased SWIM. This only lasts a couple minutes. Basically if you can't tell if your eyes are open or closed, that might be a breakthough. One time SWIM had his eyes close but could still see his hands and stuff.

Still you could probably go deeper than this too. Thats the question though. How deep can you go?

Very Nice DJ Truth. I've never tried MAOI + Vape only orally - maybe i should give it a go.

once again the infamous wiggle monster is sharing his opinion without any connection to what others may have said....essentially THERE IS ALWAYS MORE, YOU CAN ALWAYS GO DEEPER...when you realize the extent of it your mind cant even really fully wrap around the concept. i am of the opinion that there are factors in ones subtle energies that go beyond what you ate for lunch and whos house are you at that make differences...i thought once that i had reached the edge...and then my mental status was shattered, repeatedly...to go as far as you can my suggestion would be to go on a long term super cleansing diet, and do some traveling in order to mix up the energy flow and start physical and meditational training-ness...then try again (always preferred in nature...and probably have stronger results...but were all different so whos to say?

breakthrough is anything out of body, true

i believe that a breakthrough involves entities interacting with us. When you have very clear messages and interactions with them specifically. On a sub-breakthrough i think youre still able to perceive our consensus reality in someway, overlapped by objects, entities, etc from hyperspace. I agree that there's always the possibility of going deeper into it (body disintegration, becoming one with the trip, orgiastic climax, etc) but i consider that once you break the veil and it doesnt matter anymore if you open or close your eyes, you have brokenthrough succesfully