This thread again? Pretty sure I read this a few months ago?

Introspective truths realized while on DMT can be a pretty hard pill to swallow. I can see how some may come to hate DMT, especially if it points out some things about you that you don't like and don't want to change, I don't know if that is the case with the OP. I see it as something of a learning tool, or at least that is my hope of what it is. It has already changed my outlook on some things in I think a really positive way, and it has let me see some things that I need to change.

I think the people it has done great things for far outnumber the people that hate it.

DMT is the key; it only unlocks the door for us, and plays no bias to who steps through. Once on the other side, the molecule has done it's part and leaves it now up to the individual to see the journey through to the end.
A key has no consciousness to lure, deceive and destroy, those are human qualities. I wouldn't condemn the molecule just yet!

joebono you said yourself you were doing great 4 months without tripping. A break can be useful, even necessary from time to time. If a break isn't helping, DMT is not for everyone. If you find yourself getting better results sober, maybe that's the way to go?

Maybe you should try a big dose of iboga, joe.. It helps with addiction. Resets that old dopamine system, and activates GDNF so your brain can be repaired from trauma and drug abuse. Most people don't do it very often, so I am pretty sure you won't get addicted, and you might lose the urge to try other drugs. It definitely sounds like drugs may not be your thing, and if you take drugs, then iboga is a good one to quit with. It's okay though, some straight people are pretty cool , too!

I think from a psychological perspective, there is some sort of need to "incorporate" past negative experiences in order to understand them. For example, a girl who has an abusive father will often later marry someone who turns out to be abusive just like her father. You would think she would pick someone with a completely opposite personality. But the subconscious need to master the situation, combined with the fact that the familiar is more comfortable than the unfamiliar even if it is negative, causes one to repeat negative experiences until they are mastered or at least understood. I think the same holds true regarding past negative experiences with psychedelics.

Like Joe, I personally decided that DMT was not for me, after a particularly scary experience back in January. Given the disorientation I experienced, I do not feel safe using DMT without a sitter, and I have no desire to get a sitter. Likewise, I felt the DMT experience was too quick (at least when smoking - I can't do oral due to being on SSRIs) to provide the personal insights that (for example) psilocybin provides for me. And I do think that the dangers of DMT are often underestimated. Physical harm from DMT itself is pretty unlikely unless one has a medical condition, but harming oneself unintentionally or at least outing oneself to neighbours (say by screaming while disoriented) I feel is a real possibility. That said, I don't feel that DMT is "evil" or that no one should use it. It has its place, its just not a good match for me personally.

I didn't want to make a rash decision, so I thought for over 6 weeks before I got rid of my DMT. I have not used it since. However, I'm still interested in the insights of others who use DMT. I told myself also that I was going to wait at least a year before using any other psychedelic drugs. That was difficult to do, because I had a situation this summer where I faced a major personal decision involving career paths and it would have been helpful to examine this decision under the influence of (say) psilocybin in order to get a better idea of my unconscious feelings about the decision. However, I told myself that if I didn't have the discipline to stick to my decisions, then I probably didn't have the discipline needed to be a responsible psychedelics user.

Elphologist

Joe,

You and I go way back before either of us were members of the Nexus. Remember the Shroomery days and the things you used to say? Put it all into perspective brother and move on. If its not for you then my respectful advice is that you dont post here any more. Go find joes niche in life. Move on. dont purposly bring hate and discontent to these boards.

The molecule is not for everyone. Its not for you for sure, but dont let that bring you down. Dont think for one minute that you couldnt handle it so you gotta force it to be like everyone else on the Nexus. You are no less a human spirit because it doesnt work for you.

Move on joe.

dont be malicious.

Ease away from that pain brother. You're right though, there is nothing like a mother's love and you're lucky you have it. Make the best of it while you do.

I've got a reverse take on your "Fuck DMT" comment. If you're going to say that to anyone, it might as well be to people that know what you might be feeling like. You might as well say it to people that could understand the intensity of how you might be feeling.

I don't know about "addiction", but I'm sure there's some mind fuck possibility whenever powerful psychedelics are in town. You know it will all sort itself out. You don't have to do it again. You have everything you need with DMT or without.

I don't share joe's views but since when doesn't a person have a right to speak his mind? If someone feels that strongly about DMT and wants to share then others have the right to listen if they choose. I think giving joe this type of treatment scares others from sharing their negative feelings about DMT.

its good for people to know that DMT is not a magical wand to fix all your problems in a snap...noone has debated that here either..its the tone of the post..just like it was the last time. This is a DMT website where most people dont feel that way about DMT..so it is expected when you post something like that, especially with such a negative tone that people are going to want a dialague. Joe just seems to want to vent. Hey, we all need to vent.....

If you push the envelope too far........it falls off the table.

Sounds to me like Joebonos overdone it;something this powerful requires a tempered approach and lots of strong aya journeys, on a weekly basis, doesnt suggest moderation to me.We all have our limits-the key is to know when to stop.

Reminds me a little of ex-alcoholics who manage to get clean then are the most vehement of opponents to a substance that the majority of users never get into woes with.

Good luck to you joebono- methinks you need to find other avenues to explore..... and try to recall the biggest asskicking youve ever had under DMT/aya....remember the sheer harsh misery and unforgiving nature of it and perhaps you will think twice about vaporising or making the brew.

First of all, if you are "addicted" as you claim, though I'm not sure what your definition of addiction is, considering this is something you haven't done in 4 months. But if you are addicted, get rid of your stuff! Ayahuasca isn't something you just happen upon like a bottle of beer. You said you swore off dmt, yet for some reason you held on to product. Throw it out and you shouldn't have this problem again.

If you ask me, you seem unhappy with life in general.... and deal with heavy feelings of guilt and self punishment, and self judgement. Try not to view your life some kind of mistake, and blame whatever substance or whatever circumstances have befallen you. I may have made some dumb choices as a kid, and had some weird philosophies, but I think it would be a bad and destructive attitude if I looked back and said, "man I was an idiot moron when I was a kid. What a deluded fool I was back then.... but now I know the real score." This is destructive for two reasons. First, because self hating feelings aren't good for you, and second because I would only be fooling myself in to thinking that only NOW I'm really smart and don't have anything else to learn. I would be just as deluded as I was when I was kid, making the same mistakes over again. Those "mistakes" and philosophies as a kid only helped be the stronger and better person I am now. I wouldn't have learned a thing if I didn't make mistakes. If you feel you have made mistakes, learn from them and move on. Furthermore, if you are self judgmental, you are likely to judge others who are, or were once like you..... which you seem to do in your posts with accusatory and judgmental tone.



hmmmm.... believe it or not, some people don't find such an experience to be a bad thing. I've found that seeing layer after layer of bullshit in hyperspace help me to realize the bullshit in my own everyday life. I don't get too full of myself. But you're absolutely right. If you take enough dmt, your description is exactly what happens, temporarily. Reality falls in to paradoxes in to absurdities. Got it. Public be warned. If that doesn't sound like something you're interested in, stay away from dmt. It's wrong to assume that anyone who does dmt will have a fun time. It's not a party drug. However, there is no need for a polar opposite view, that dmt is stupid, and anyone who does it is stupid.

Well, If you really hate dmt, maybe you'll find a way to purge your own endogenous dmt.

If you run to DMT or any psychedelic as a way to forget about other things in life, and come down feeling ripped off by the experience simply becasue it ends, I would say there is a problem there. Seems like there is something else wrong with your life that you dont want to look at, otherwise you would be happy there as well and not projecting anger onto DMT for being temporal experience.

DMT for me is a wonderful and beautiful experience most often, sometimes it can be rough but insightful..I dont look back and feel decoeved or tricked by DMT just becasue it has a very ecstatic peak then drops me back in this world..thats not the point. The point is that a beautifulo experience is just that-a beautiful experience..why marginalize it?

Life is fucking amazing Joe. If you feel lied to by DMT after it ends..why?..why arent you instead looking foreward at the life you have and seeing how wonderful it is and being thankful for all the beauutiful experiences we attain without holding each one to these standards and expectations of objective truths and such...personally I dont think that approach opens the road for anyone into happiness.

It is a very left brain persuit..of which standards will never be met within the province of right brain consciousness..

Relax a bit and try to just enjoy what comes in the moment without binding ultumatums and expectations within each experience..truth in my opinion extends itslef through the lens of subjectivity, so it will always be here and nowhere, and subject to paradox..dissapearing as quickly as it appears..so enjoy it while you can, and forget about what it means after.

Your words doesn't bother me, i just don't know why this needs to be discussed again.
Everyone decides for himself what DMT means. Telling me that you think dmt is evil doesn't change my opinion at all, so what's the point? Every verbal try to judge dmt must fail, because this substance is capable to show you places where thinking must cease.

What happens after we come back goes right through the filter called ego. That your ego says that the experience is terrible and addictive is curious, but doesn't change anything.

So sorry you feel this way Joe. I have to say you're the first person i've come across with such a powerfully negative reaction to DMT, and i've come across a few opinions out there. Certainly DMT is a challenging topic that divides opinion - quite often people will make their minds up about its suitability before even considering taking it. That you have had prolonged exposure to the substance grants you the authority (and i think the responsibility in a place like this - we're here to share everything, after all) to express your views how you see fit. Naturally there's a lot of discontent with your tone and approach, and whilst i dont think this needs to be the overwhelming point of discussion here, i do feel a post so opinionated, so wholly subjective, should've been contemplated a lot more beforehand.

I'd be interested in hearing from you, and anyone else, who believes DMT to be 'evil'. I'm particularly interested in your statement of such given that it preceded another statement claiming you do not believe in good or bad or morality. At the risk of opening a very big can of worms here, may i ask how does one not believe in these concepts and then espouse the qualities of an experience so full of 'evil'? Surely good and bad and evil are all mutually reliable?

I'd like to say something about the value of the DMT experience in context of good and evil. I believe DMT as a compound and as an experience has no such relativistic value of good and/or evil, despite what may be revealed to you during any given experience. Sure, every DMT trip is psychologically challenging and almost always terrifying - personally i think this has to do more with the dislocation of reality, clutching of the ego, and sometimes because the content is so revolting/disgusting/shocking/appalling (delete as appropriate). If i can be crass for a moment and compare this to the movies - say, a horror flick is not by definition 'evil' because it portrays the symptoms or qualities of evil. Moreover, it is our perception of 'evil' as a value in our personalities and perceptions that defines it as such. In a similar way, your observations of DMT in your life - both as an experience and as a habit you've found difficult to control - have clearly affected the judgement of its value as something necessarily good or evil.

With this in mind, i feel genuinely sorry for you and i hope you're able to find the love, the support and the mental certitude to overcome these issues and move on with your life.

All the best Joe. Thanks for contributing.

Joebono, what's up? Perhaps, instead of being so charged, you would like to explain what's really going on with you? We're a bunch of good people in here, I am sure you really think the same, and if you come here and try to explain what it is that is really making you feel this way we would all be feeling better with eachother. I suggest that you reply calmly and try to explain and share with us, because you seem to be in pain. It hurts to see your post, man... Snap out of charge and be honest with us, or at least with yourself, about what's really going on. DMT is not really the problem, is it?

After every time ive inhaled DMT i always feel 'this is enough' & im never left craving more... so i find this very strange

I do see how it could be possible to get psychologically attached to entheogens, but then your just not getting the point/teaching/lesson

I find entheogens a HUGE paradox, they show you something so perfect & whole that you actually have to do nothing to attain it, so i don't find psychs addictive at all they come & go with the ebb & flow of life, usually a couple times year, its like a disc defragment.

I think there are a couple of things to mention
Anything as mind bending and powerful as dmt will
Cause a certain amount of mental casualties . It cannot be used as
An escape from this reality or hard life circumstances.
The very nature of it seems not to support any type if trivialized
Casual or non-commited use of it . Why this is, i still don't
Understand .

Any dependence or addiction seems to be psychogical and temporary
Not physical although in the heat of an intense session there does seem
To be a serious physical desire for it . This is never lingering afterwards though.


Generally addicts are jealous of people that can take or leave a substance
This can express itself in many ways but anger is at the source.

Pure and utter fascination and the desire to explore and understand
Are the source if my interest in all if this. The fact that
There seems apparent a tangible ability to connect with
Some kind if other realities brings me to the party.
One must proceed with the utmost caution . Integrate take breaks talk it out with people.
I think its meaningful but its not for everyone.

I think this has happened to a good 25% of our membership over a period of time as I have seen many posts with this theme surface. I had the same mindset when I left the DMT community 7 years ago. You see your missing one thing right now. Time to let the experiences integrate. It doesnt happen over a month or a week. It takes a long time for you to truly grasp and become that which is on the other side. DMT will forever effect how you see and understand the world, it has permanently altered your perceptions and you will never be able to go back to the old way, Deal with it. You like myself and many others expected too much from this drug and as a result we were disappointed in what we got even though we did get quite a bit. It will just take you time and some reflection to see what has occurred. It's ok to take a break everyone does and most of them eventually come back.

I dont think that the drug itself is what he is calling addicting, it's the desperate need for a answer. That search for meaning that can consume the mind of a person. DMT gives forth a spectacular experience and as a result those who search in such a manner can latch onto it psychologically as it is the most promising thing they have experienced that might hold the secrets they so desperately seek. I have often found that right at the end of a DMT experience I feel as if I was in the bring of a profound revelation right as the experience ended making me want to go back and finish to find it but that never came to pass. It was like tempting a child with a treat but never giving it to them it was a cruel experience.

Joe,

I feel like you let dmt (and possibly other drugs) become too much of your life. It sounds to me that this "purple clouds" trip you were hoping for was supposed to be nothing more that a 3D visual movie experience. I think you wanted to pass the time, and hopefully have a good enough experience to allow you to do it again. Of course, we know what actually happened is you got spanked with a little of the old "thought cascading mind rape"

Anyhow.. I feel like you have already decided that you are addicted horribly to dmt. And I know our minds are capable of manifesting a horrible experience (especially with the aid of dmt) With all that riding on your shoulders, how could you possibly have a good mindset going in?

Well over a decade ago, me and some friends got on a regular coke routine. I felt guilty the whole time... but when it was new, the euphoria greatly overtook the guilt. At some point, the novelty wore off... the hangovers got a little worse. The euphoria waned, but my guilt was still there, in full force. Those nights/afternoons... tossing and turning trying to get enough sleep to function were filled with half vivid nightmares.

I wanted nothing to do with it anymore...but my friends hadn't hit the wall yet. their good was still outweighing the bad. I projected my negative feelings on them every chance I could....telling myself that I was trying to save them from the hellride I had experienced. But, I really was just trying to stop them from enjoying it, becasue that was making it harder for me to abstain.

I don't think of dmt and coke as nearly the same, but you do... so maybe there is a little something for you in that story.

Be safe and happy brother...although not necessarily in that order.

Joe i don't really know what to respond with here. I hope you look after yourself and stay away from DMT tho because you are clearly one of the people whom are not suitable for it. Perhaps you are with a bit of work...

I often mention these things are not for everybody when talking on the subject. Perhaps you are one of these people.

The thing i find concerning is how you align DMT with addictive substances. I don't have a drug problem, i rarely use any drugs other then coffee, pot maybe a hand full of times a year and DMT even less.

A friend of mine often mentions im a 'druggy' because of my interests in the subject, when this same friend is a nicotine addict and smokes pot daily and drinks regularly.

I find this frustrating in the same manner as your post here.
I just don't understand how you can align DMT with this addictive behavior. I don't feel any need to use DMT regularly.

I feel like your negative opinions on DMT are causing you to say things that simply do not mirror the reality of the substance.
What i do feel is on display is how DMT is powerful and can have profound effects on a persons psych be that good or bad.

I feel 98% of it is about your set & setting, current under current of mental noise etc.

I guess what i want to say is, ok so you didnt like it but dont compare DMT to an addictive drug. You may be confusing compulsion or hope with addiction. You feel compelled to try DMT again... i doubt that is an addiction.
Maybe you have an addictive trait in your personality.
I don't know, but i don't believe DMT is an addictive substance... not at all.

I do not feel like DMT is subjectively addictive. Maybe you have place some mental weight on DMT's effects and hope it can help you. Perhaps romantically so.

Either way don't diss the substance. I am surprised you as a relatively intelligent person cannot see how this issue is subjective and based upon you as a person not DMT as a substance.

Its like someone trying a totally different drug say, ibuprofen and having a negative experience with it say an allergy. And from that point onwards declaring ibuprofen as a poison. Its simply not the case for every body else.

What concerns me about this thread is other people not initiated with DMT going on what Joe has been saying without experiencing it themselves if only because he speaks in such a convinced manner.

Yes there are inerrant risks, with living. Does that mean life is dangerous? Possibly. Should we kill ourselves to avoid danger? Probably not. But here is the great part... you don't have to use DMT!

Be well, stay grounded and enjoy life.