I was wondering if many people think they have had a full breakthrough during a sub-breakthrough experience, keeping them from actually digging deeper (aka a bigger dose).

To me a sub-breakthrough comes on slowly and seems dreamlike, open to suggestion, sometimes random, but very vivid nonetheless.

A full breakthrough for me happens immediately, BAM, I’m there and it looks realer than real. Not dreamlike at all, but rather a different place of being that is just as real as my normal conciseness.

During some of my latest sub-breakthrough experiences, I’ve come into contact with these beings that are confused as to why I’m there, they tell me “shouldn’t you have moved past this,” and “ you shouldn’t be here” etc… They seem to be guiding lots of souls through a tunnel. They tell me these are the people that either can’t or won’t breakthrough. And there were an endless stream of them.

These beings always direct me to a door away from the river of souls and tell me to try again, the door always leads back to my room.

I was wondering is there really that many people (the endless river of souls) that can’t breakthrough. Is it a rare occurrence? Is it possible that some just can’t reach (or think they have but really haven't) a breakthrough?

SWIM thinks it stems from hesitation. SWIM remembers the first time he introduced spice to a close friend. Swim told him that he needed to experience this, and to just keep hitting it, with no hesitation. SWIMs friend did this exactly, taking 3 large tokes before falling back onto the couch. SWIMs friend trused him very much and SWIM thinks this is why he was able to keep hitting the bong without hesitation.

SWIM introduced it to a few other people that he had not known as long and they probably didnt trust SWIM as much. They just wanted to try spice, and underestimated its power. When they did try finally try it, they hesitated, taking one large rip and being like, "oh yeah I feel it really strong" and SWIM was like, "you shouldn't even be able to talk, keep hitting it". They never did keep hitting it. They really thought they were experiencing a breakthrough.

Not that a high dose is the only way to experience spice, but I think that it can be very useful in unveiling the power that is inside us.

this a very good and interesting question.

my thoughts on this are that the ego is able to prevent a breakthrough if the dosage of substance in question isn't high enough. By that I mean that basically fear of letting go triggers some kind of defense mechanism, probably resulting in a very bad experience while still having your sense of self (and maybe less so of time and place).

When you say breakthrough I think of ego-loss or ego-death, but maybe not everyone does. I've not personally experienced it and it is becoming a bit frustrating, as fear of some hellish experience prevents me from higher dosages. I'm new to DMT though and I suppose it could happen a lot faster with this than say mushrooms.

I too have experienced trips with other people present that couldn't/didn't break through. It was an odd experience, I had my eyes closed the whole time (I think) and I watched my friend bounce off a barrier that I didn't even know was between us. It was a weird trip though, not very vivid, just a lot of impressions.

I think having a good guide makes all the difference in the world for some people. Being there to get a productive dialog going after a few non-breakthrough trips can keep a person from getting disheartened, from getting frustrated, and from getting scared! That for me is almost as rewarding as a solid breakthrough trip, helping someone get their first breakthrough.

Not that any of that answered your question! Like most questions with seeking a deeper understanding, I'm going to guess the answer is a solid "Maybe".

I have a friend who tried spice and it had literally no effect on him. he took 3 hits and had held them in for what should have been long enough. i asked if he was feeling it and his response was "well, my balls tingle. is that supposed to happen?" it was a good sized dose and he was vaporizing it just like i showed him.

so i would say no, not everyone can break through. that being said this was an extreme case and definately more the exception than the rule.

Now, lets say that the theory that endogenous DMT is released during death to allow the soul to exit the body is true. I would imagine a breakthrough would need to be possible for the soul to exit into higher planes of existence.

Now, if one were to fight the breakthrough during their death (fear, uncertainty, etc...) would that soul be stuck in purgatory? Is letting go, and accepting death necessary for the soul to escape it's flesh bindings?

I had a friend as well that did the same dose as me and he didn't feel a thing. It was his first time though and I wonder how much of a role that plays. Psychedelic Information Theory says the brain shows plasticity with psychedelics.

An interesting theory! Throughout history, there have been many, if not most, cultures/religions that emphasize "dying well": Christians are given the last rights, some Japanese Buddhists used to self-mummify, etc. By dying well, one doesn't experience that fear, uncertainty, or hesitation, and is free to break through to whatever lies ahead? Very interesting thought, indeed! Thanks for the new perspective!

Yeah, I find if you know what to look for, you're more likely to find it. DMT has changed my perceptual experiences of other psychedelics to be more like DMT because I think that's just what my brain is used to right now

I think this is quite common, even alcohol is somewhat psychedelic for me now.

Yeah, I know what you mean. When I smoke some MJ I'm always regularly greeted now to clouds of color. They aren't really vibrant or satisfying as far as a full psychedelic experience goes, but I've actually learned very recently that I can control the colors I see after waking up or smoking weed by will. I simply try and imagine a color with reasonable focus, and there it appears before my eyes. If I think "blue" that's what I get. If I think "green" that's the next color up. I find myself limited to red, blue, green, yellow, orange and purple (now that I write that out, I realize that's pretty much all of the basics, but that's the thing is that they're all just one shade really).

Hey!

A very interesting question. In my humble opinion, it all has something to do with the brain plasticity, as Elf Machine, gobalswg and justine mentioned. It seems that your brain needs to rewire itself before it can actually experience a breakthrough, let alone a ‘The end of the Line’ breakthrough. By simply using DMT the brain seems to get used to the whole experience, making specific neurological pathways stronger. You can probably see it as a ‘muscle’, which you never used before and therefore it’s very weak. You need to ‘train’ it for some time, before you will be able to ‘till’ some weight.

In my personal case, it took me almost one month of smoking DMT every day before I got my very first breakthrough; I even started wondering if it was even possible to ‘breakthrough’ at all

I also personally dosed to some friends of mine pretty heavy doses of DMT, mane times at one single night with no results! Al they reported were some swirling fountains of colors they never saw before. But they couldn’t relate to, or understand, anything of it! And they said that they felt very good, but nothing extraordinary and definitely no breakthrough!

So, the bottom line is this: everybody can experience a breakthrough, but some people will need more time to be able to experience it, to rewire the brain structure. How much time exactly? It probably depends on personal, cultural and genetic background.

As for your aliens, seven7seven, I believe you whole hearty. But remember this – it’s not the end. There is more to reality of that DMT realm than you can now possibly imagine. Your aliens is merely an interpretation of a leading pathway to the ‘real’ or ‘the end of the line’ breakthrough – then you will ‘get it’ Before that happens – relax and enjoy, while your brain is getting accustomed to the entire experience: D

Love and light to all.

p.s. Like people above mentioned already - the rewiring will affect the experience of other psychedelics as well

Read the Tibetan Book of the Dead as there are parallels to the different Bardo's . One of the main themes is that one must recognize each level or "bardo" to progress to the next.Very interesting stuff!

For me it has been a progressive experiences from dreamstates to breakthrus...If you dont breakthru it is usually because of technique or anxiety.

Aetherbound

If nothing else the GVG makes it taste better

No a GVG is not a "must", it is a preference for some. Sandwiching the spice between two layers of herbs works fine with a little practice. Having the courage to hit the pipe until you are "there" is a whole other thing. There were times when the come up was hitting me hard and I quit , thinking I was on the verge of breakthru when I was no where close. Have a sitter and hit it until you breakthru, the sitter may have to take the pipe out of your hand. Also, breaking thru does not mean you will remember it, you may just come back with the FEELING something extraordinary happened and nothing else.
Putting words to the breakthru can often be the hardest thing to do as there is nothing in objective reality to compare it too.

Strangely enough I usually get quite anxious after my first (heavy) toke but the second one will melt all fear, I think of it as a test

The GVG is a nice thing but I don't know why I breakthrough easier with a little glass bong smoking my changa than vaping it in my expensive glass VG
In fact it's even less and less potent to me a spice delivery device...

Well I think one of the big pro's with changa is that you can just smoke it like you would anything else which practically throws technique and any of those issues to the wind. You simply burn it all till there's none left, hold it in as long as you can and voila.

What do you mean 'end of the line' or 'real' breakthrough? Are you talking about death, or a much deeper experience? I am most certain I have barely touched the surface of what DMT is capable of. It is pretty hard to get past the point where you don't recognize the pipe anymore though. Each time I go though it does seem as if my brain has gotten used to the DMT as I seem to go deeper each time I smoke.



I've noticed this for sure!!! I am quite fond of 2C-E, and have taken it a lot. I was trippin on 30mg the other night and I decided I would try to close my eyes and use some of the tools the aliens gave me. So first I imagined my hyperspace body the way they showed me (you have to feel it, and see it at the same time, become it). I was immediately immersed in beautiful colors and was able to journey on a vision quest of sorts for a few hours, I was blown away. 2C-E for me never had any CEVs (except maybe waves of darkness, no color though) so I attribute this as my brain being able to tune in into these mind states with much more ease since my breakthrough experiences on DMT.

What do you mean 'end of the line' or 'real' breakthrough? Are you talking about death, or a much deeper experience? I am most certain I have barely touched the surface of what DMT is capable of. It is pretty hard to get past the point where you don't recognize the pipe anymore though. Each time I go though it does seem as if my brain has gotten used to the DMT as I seem to go deeper each time I smoke.



I've noticed this for sure!!! I am quite fond of 2C-E, and have taken it a lot. I was trippin on 30mg the other night and I decided I would try to close my eyes and use some of the tools the aliens gave me. So first I imagined my hyperspace body the way they showed me (you have to feel it, and see it at the same time, become it). I was immediately immersed in beautiful colors and was able to journey on a vision quest of sorts for a few hours, I was blown away. 2C-E for me never had any CEVs (except maybe waves of darkness, no color though) so I attribute this as my brain being able to tune in into these mind states with much more ease since my breakthrough experiences on DMT.