I see a problem here: I don't think any reasonable person here still has doubts about the lack of morality our governments posses.
But how do you know that the medicine aint worse than what it's supposed to cure? Stalin was at least as nasty as hitler, communism at least as nasty as capitalism, national socialism at least as nasty as the versailes treaty, american occupation at least as nasty as saddam's regime, etc...

And some things DO need to be kept secret: like how much kidnappers in afghanistan or jemen get paid in ransom by our governments when they release a western hostage..for the obvious reason that if anybody knows how profitable the kidnapping busines is it get's worse.
Or the names of informants in organisations such as al-qaida.. for the reason that this would sabotage the sabotage of terror attacks, or the fact that maybe the US government is negotiating with the taliban.. for the reason that the american public won't accept it, but that it may be necessary to establish peace, or the fact that the US is negotiating with pakistan about it's stock of nuclear material..for the reason the pakistani public won't accept it but that it may be nessecary to prevent it falling into the wrong hands, etc.

I don't trust wikileaks that much. I think they're driven by hate against the government, wich is understandable. But it's not a good basis for acting.

I don't think they consider the greater picture and the consequences of their actions. They just want to sabotage the machinery because they don't like the people behind it and their motives.

But the sabotage of evil machinery's has most of the time lead to more evil machinery's replacing them.

I don't think a world without secrets is such a good idea. It's as naive as communism. To think the public is able to understand what's going on is a fiction. The public would never accept it for instance if they knew obama and clinton would negotiate with al-qaida, with teheran, with north-korea..They want their leaders to be firm and tough like they pretent to be. So those negotiations have to take place in secrecy.

One of my major points. Thank you for articulating it - with a severely burnt hand, typing is increasingly difficult...

I think each country should have some kind of legal standard in relation to leaking, a 'just cause' clausule or something so that a judge can make the distinction between justified leaking and unjustified leaking. If leaking information could save lives for instance, then the people who leak should be legally protected against prosecution etc.

I've given it a second thought now, and at this moment i think that when a country doesn't have such a law it realy asks for a phenomenon like wikileaks to occur and it doesn't realy have any right to complain.
On the other hand, when there IS such a law, then wikileaks should follow the procedure's proscribed in this law and people should be prosecuted if they don't do this.

That's way too intelligent for the US Government to do.

Well, if that's so, they should stop wining and wise up a little.
If you think you're infallable, someone's gonna rub it in that you're not. This time it's wikileaks.

so let me understand this...in the land of litigation and frivolous lawsuits, you're suggesting there be a law against leaking classified documents? or perhaps on a UN level?



expose all.
I don't believe in the premise that the people need to be protected from knowing the truth.
Big brother already does that with authoritarian rule in this country.
It's bad enough that they're not required to report what they're spending taxpayer dollars on.

What i'm sugesting is a little more subtle. I sugest there should be a protocol for leaking classified information. Specified circumstances that would allow leaking.

I assume that leaking classified documents is already an illegal thing to do, but there are clearly situations thinkable where leaking would be justified for the greater good of all. Define those circumstances and put them in a law, so that people know what they're supposed to do if they encounter situations where they feel they're obliged to leak.

I suggest, and i hardly think any person equipped with enough intellectual capabilities to understand this very sentence could disagree, that this would be the SINGLE MOST EFFECTIVE weapon against irresponsible leaking (revealing names of informants, amounts of ransom paid by foreign embasees in cases of kidnappings, UFO landing sites, etc.)

irresponsible leaking vs. responsible leaking

that's funny.

i suppose "responsible leaking" is what mainstream journalism does.
then again, it's only spilling half the story. the other half is censored due to conservative groups who deem it "irresponsible".

progress isn't made by addressing things with a conservative approach, that only benefits
the upper echelon.

some times you gotta crack some eggs to make a cake.

sadly this will most likely directly cause loss of human life in some area such as encouraging kidnapping. thats a small drop in the bucket of lives lost compared to the way these goverments and agency's conduct themselves. that must be looked at.

its called fratricide and its a horrible thing but its also not 100% avoidable.

we want govt accountable to the ones they serve. if the current governance will not allow this then maybe its time for change. maybe change comes in the form of a devastating blow to the corrupt greedy liars exposing them for what they are.

indeed.

the first draft in global revolt: expose the powers that be.
this is very necessary, and was only a matter of time before it happened
so, rise and shine

If secrecy is wrong, why doesn't asange tell where he is then?
Because it would cost him his live?
How do you know that?
Because 'some people' will act according a 'certain doctrine'?

So you say that you ought to keep some things secret because you can't trust anybody, right?

he has presented himself to the british police...

Wikileaks founder Julian Assange arrested in London

This is really sad as he is a legend and a hero.


Much Peace and Compassion

Can an AES cryptation be cracked ?

If he goes to Sweden he will be assassinated. Half the civilized nations have called for it. Check this out one of em was linked to the CIA:
http://www.rawstory.com/...e-rape-accuser-cia-ties/
If the MAN wants you bad enough he'll make you look so dirty your own mother will turn you in.

Well he already spread information well enough that it is beyond him, killing him wont save the governments. Only a small percentage of the 250.000 'cablegate' files were published thus far, and there's apparently a lot of stuff regarding BP and guantanamo too which he already spread out in case something happened to him. Not to mention that there's potentially much more leaked documents of all kinds which can come up in the future.

Theres def much more dirt to come out, and every attempt from the government to shut wikileaks down will only strenghten it. I can only hope more and more people wake up with all these scandals and it isnt just naturalized and internalized, making people more passive.

I just sure wish he would publish everything right now. Put it out there in such mass force that they couldn't stop it. Why do you think he is holding off? I would have that crap bouncing off torrent sites and mirrors all over the internet ASAP.

Im sure it will come out. I already read that some people that used to work for wikileaks are gonna make a new organization of the same kind. Also apparently he already sent loads of the files to major newspapers which agreed to release little by little, and there seems to be an encrypted torrent file with more stuff flying around the internet for long already (I imagine he must have given the password to certain trustable people).

I think this has grown into a too big momentum, I sure hope its enough to prevent the old system from coming back as if nothing happened.

By the way, apparently paypal, visa and mastercard cancelled wikileaks accounts after pressure. Twitter is also sensoring wikileaks by not displaying it in the results of the top searches or something like that. All these bastards showing their true faces of course. They are trying so hard to strangle him... I already saw also that a group of hackers is attacking all of these 'enemies' of wikileaks. Lets see how this turns out

For them to want him this bad he must have something major. They are cashing in all their cards and obviously making themselves look even worse in the public eye. They reaaaalllyyy want that info back bad enough to take another PR hit to get it. Think about it if all the info was out there then they wouldnt risk further public damage to get him they would do it in a more hidden manner later less publicly. But they are going hard for him now which leads to to my theory. They want something back he has.

He's gonna have to get the info out there to millions right now or we might as well start a conspiracy theory thread on what was in the missing files. We could make Roswell look like amateur hour.

i think ALL the cables should be released now! why even wait and risk gag orders or people succumbing to the threats and actions of the goverments against julian and possibley deciding to not put them out there. if they have more damaging info they need to be public NOW! the moment the are put on the web they will be forever in our hands. in juts seconds they will be copied and re posted. its the start of a revolution. this is a big deal people!

why do you think they are waiting?