**WARNING: This post contains a long trip report with a lot of information that may seem extraneous and irrelevant. Feel free to skip to the questions at the end of the post.

So last friday I decided to have my first go at salvia. It probably all started the day before that when I tried datura leave tea again using two large leaves. I was so sure that I would feel some affects, but once again I was snubbed. Then when I got home from school the next day (so friday), seeing as how I had nothing important to do, I made my third failed attempt with nutmeg essential oil. I mixed about 22.5 mL of the oil with some yogurt and ate it after chewing six datura seeds. This may sound like a very large dose but it turns out that I bought a dud. This was apparent with my first try with 3 mL but I didn't want to waste the nutmeg oil and being the hopeful person that I am, I had to finish it off.

Frustrated with all my failures (and by failures I mean "newly gained experience" I wanted to succeed in feeling affects from something. Being that the only other plant that I had in my possession that was [clears his throat] a sure thing was salvia, I knew what I had to do. I called my friend to inquire whether he would be my sitter and offered to reciprocate if it were his wish. You gotta stay safe and responsible . And then it was on.

The method I used was to use my handmade pipe which has proved to be of sufficient quality in previous tests then:

1) Fill the bowl with half a gram of plain salvia leaves
2) Hold a standard lighter to the bowl
3) Inhale while keeping the flame on the herbs
4) Continue inhaling until smoke fully inflated my lungs
5) Hold the smoke for 20-30 seconds
6) Repeat steps 2-5 two or three more times until all the leaves are reduced to ash

My aim was to ingest all the leaves in around three minutes. This seemed easy enough as I had proved that I could do it with catnip in previous trials.

So I began the procedure. I got the first lung full in with no problem and held the smoke with no effect. Immediately I started the second toke. By this point I was not expecting to feel anything and started to think that this would end as just another futile attempt. Then it began.

It was the most intense sensation I had ever experienced. I started seeing in tunnel vision. My field of view was a narrow circle framed by my friend at one side. Everything outside this circle was distorted and seemed as though it was being pulled into the circle like the circle had some sort of massive gravitational pull. This pull was not just affecting the objects though. I felt as though I was being pulled into the whole as well. "Welcome to the Machine" by Pink Floyd was playing in the background and the pull surged with the music waxing and waning in intensity. I could feel the surges run through my body and this made my body feel as though I was laughing intensely. I mean really intensely. This was an intensity of laughing that I have never felt in all my life. Yet I wasn't laughing. The whole time I was concentrating furiously. Trying not to fall into the whole, trying not to laugh, trying to continue to smoke.

Once in this state, it became very hard to hold the smoke in my lungs and I would cough out whole lung fulls with a wrath that left my lungs aching. I noticed that I was salivating extensively and with one cough I released a stream of spit that traveled a straight line for abut two meters before it hit anything. I remember thinking that this what a cobra must feel like just with out the whole black hole thing going on but I'm not a cobra so how do I know.

Anyway, this was about as far as I got. The whole time I felt like there was some other reality behind me and if I fell into the hole I could get there but it didn't happen. I guess I couldn't ingest the rest of the dose fast enough to beat the rate at which my body was metabolizing the salvinorin or maybe I was fighting it too much. Soon the peak was done and I was left in an interesting state where I could not easily articulate any of my thoughts and the music definitely felt more interesting. Generally, I just felt like I was off my baseline.

Once I had regained my composure, I couldn't help but to feel happier than usual. Sure I was a bit disappointed that I didn't break through, but this was surely not a failure and on a first try none the less. I had heard of some people using salvia to treat depression before but I hadn't known what to think of this claim until now. Now, I would say that this treatment might actually work seeing as how almost two days later I still feel that my mood has been lifted.

I knew that I had to try again, so about an hour later I loaded the bowl of my pipe again. Everything was just about the same except that once I reached the laughing state I concentrated hard enough to hold in a third lung full of smoke. I also tried to succumb to pull that I was experiencing but that only led to me hitting my head on the wall behind me.

Once all the herb was burnt, I directed my friend to quickly fill the bowl with the remaining half gram of slavia. Even in this state I had retained enough of my faculties to try and test whether I had just underdosed in the previous trial. This did nothing more than to extend the peak in length and did not affect the intensity of it.

When I finished the second bowl, I proceeded to hold my pipe with the stem running up the length of my forearm (the stem of my pipe is about a foot long). Upon doing this I felt as though the pipe had melded with my body and that it continued to bend around me, hugging the contour of my back, and then running on to my other forearm. This made me feel rigid and I began to twist my spine which affirmed and accentuated the sensation. I noticed that I was twisting to the music and quite involuntarily. I know I was listening to Dark Side of the Moon, but I can't recall what track was playing. When I put the pipe down, I began to sway widely from one side to the other, once again it was involuntary and once again it was in unison with the music.

After that nothing special, or should I rephrase that, nothing unexpected happened. With this trial I answered some of my earlier questions. I didn't breakthrough because I couldn't smoke fast enough and not because I just didn't smoke enough or because I was fighting it. I also couldn't breakthrough by just succumbing to pulling sensation.

About a half an hour later, it was my friend's turn. He followed the same procedure as I did and everything seemed very similar between our experiences. The only difference was that once my friend reached the “laughing stage” he actually began to laugh uncontrollably which made me laugh and that just didn't help anyone because that made him laugh even more.

Once my friend left I made one more attempt with the salvia and this led to just about the same set of affects. This time the difference was that I noticed more static in my visual field and this static began to congeal as if something were trying to materialize. But alas nothing materialized and I decided to call a quits. I went to bed easily that night and woke up feeling quite refreshed.

_Questions______________________________________________________________________

This experience has left me with a few more questions. For instance, what do other people usually experience. I have read many trip reports and read what many people claim the affects to be, but I don't ever remember reading that salvia could elicit intense laughter.

I was also wondering about reverse tolerance. I have read that many people will have no affects what so ever the first few times and then the effects will build up. I know that I definitely felt some effects but I know that I didn't break through. Should I expect to feel more effects as I progress or will I have to change other things to increase the effects? I ask this question because most people who claim to have experienced reverse tolerance either began with using extracts and proceeded to need less and less extract to achieve breakthrough effects or they started out with leaves and didn't feel any affects at first. Neither of these describe me or my friend which I find peculiar.

I was thinking that soon I might try to extract a dose worth and condense it enough so as to be able to take the whole dose in no more than two lung-fulls. For some reason this feels like cheating to me but if it is the only way then so be it. What might be a good amount of solvent to use? I plan on either using rubbing alcohol or acetone as the solvent.

Also, does anyone know of any potentiators for salvia? Maybe datura seeds or something like that.

Ive only tried salvia x10 and it is still to this day my strongest psychedelic experience, maybe cause it was my first...

Just blew me away totally with ego death and whatnot, dmt is like weed in comparision.

I don’t want to start a DMT vs. salvia argument, but…

I’m experienced with both salvia and DMT, having used both hundreds of times over the past few years, and without a doubt DMT can take you places that salvia cannot. Salvia is intense and very physical and must be respected, but DMT can shatter you in a way that just isn’t possible with salvia.

Many experienced DMT users feel anxiety and apprehension – fear – when they are preparing to journey. I don’t think I’ve ever read an account of an experienced salvia user feeling fear when contemplating that first toke. This should tell you something.

Finally, neither salvia nor DMT is anything like “weed”.

Ok sorry for the bad comparision, i was mostly trying to point out that the intensity in salvia kicked my ass harder than DMT has so far, but to be fair ive been very careful with my dmt experiments so far whereas with salvia i just jumped in with my head first..

Agree that these shouldnt be compared with eacho other and esp not with cannabis.

Firstly, welcome to the nexus, you've found a good place to ask questions like this, many dedicated users here.

I'd like to express concern for happenings prior to your salvia trip. Trying datura and nutmeg, back to back, indicate someone who just wants to trip. Cool cool, I still do that sometimes too, but really, it's a bit unhealthy an obsession. There's some really good, easy to procure stuff out there, and while I've never tried datura or nutmeg, I'd venture to say you could find a more enjoyable vehicle of travel. You'll have to read a lot, and search a lot. Think mescaline or morning glories, that's my .02.

On to the salvia. Congratulations on seeking beyond the first trip. A lot of people get turned off by the intensity or complete strangeness of salvia. I first smoked with 4 people, and that night they were pretty convinced they didn't want to ever do it again, while I couldn't wait to buy a higher extract.

Laughter is pretty normal I believe. Some trips have them some don't. I've gotten mad laughing on 5x, and think when I did my breakthrough dose, just before I passed out, was laughing maniacally. It's crazy how that happens. I like your take that the surges, or gravity on your body causes the feeling of laughter.

As for reverse tolerance, I haven't tried it myself yet, but believe, it's simply like this. 30 minutes or so before your intended trip, take one good hard rip, and only hold it in for about half as long as normal. Then, in 30 minutes when you come back, hit small amount of extract, or couple deep lungfuls of leaf, and hold in as long as possible. The second attempt should be notably stronger than the first.

A potentiator for salvia could be passionflower, damania, or skullcap. I was smoking a mix of this the night I was out hard for 15 minutes. Search salvia here, or look at the experiences, it can be crazy crazy, but not cRaZy the way dmt is. Enjoy.

Reverse tolerance occurs over a period of days to weeks, not minutes to hours.

I agree with gibran2. When I first started smoking salvia a few years ago I barely got any effects from plain leaf. Now its comparable to strong extracts. Even when I haven't smoked for a month or more and I hit a small bowl of plain leaf I'm surprised by the intensity of it.

Also I don't feel DMT or salvia is stronger than the other. DMT can't do what salvia does and salvia can't show you what DMT can but put them together and OH MY GOD!!!! my jaw drops and I stare at the impossible here in this world, not in hyperspace where it belongs but here!
..well sometimes when you get the mix right.

I can see how one might be concerned when they hear that someone is trying to use these two substances and
back to back for that matter, but I can assure you that this was done in as responsible a way as possible. I definitely would not consider myself as someone who just wants to trip. I already knew that the nutmeg essential oil would have little to no effect because of previous trials. Had it had any affect, I would not have even attempted the salvia that night.

I can say the same for datura. In fact I have been taking my experimentation with datura painstakingly slow and have yet to ever feel any affects in any of the six times I have tried it. Datura is a plant that I have the utmost respect for and understand that it is not for everyone nor is it necessarily enjoyable. What draws me to datura is its extreme power and the way so many people fear it or disregard it. It really seems to have a presence and it demands respect as is evident by how many people almost die upon disrespecting this beautiful plant.

On another note, in my research I have found that nutmeg essential oil and nutmeg powder are two totally different beasts. The latter being relatively toxic and generally a bad idea due to non-volatile substances that are not distilled into the essential oil. I actually first heard about this on the Nexus while reading about elemi oil.

I have also tried morning glories and rivea corymbosa to no avail but have not given up on these two plants.

Next time I will try to be more clear in my writings so as not to give the wrong impression.

On a lighter note, thanks for the responses.

Well, I thank you for the correction, I was obviously under another impression.

I wasn't trying to check you for recreational use, I have just heard rough things about both intoxicants. But am glad to hear you are thorough with your understanding, it certainly pays.

mind you i only came close to breaking thru from a few mg of salvinorin xtals. I got full effects minus the visuals from a 100x swim did but even the 50x only gave a lil sally g's. Swim'd FRIGGIN LOVE To try dmt with salvinorin. They would prob need to be hit seperately because of how hot salvinorin needs tobe to vapourize but ya; cant friggin wait! Maybe swim will finnally break thru!

I know you didn't want to start an argument, but I just have to jump in here

I still feel fear and apprehension when contemplating that first toke of Salvia. And I'm definitely an experienced, long-time user. I rarely experience this with plain leaf, but with extracts, it's still pretty much every time. I have to remind myself that I've done it plenty of times before, I know what to expect for the most part, and that it'll only last for 20 minutes at most. My tolerance to Salvia is so low that a good hit of 5x is extremely strong for me, so it always causes me to think twice before I light up. I'm always putting it off and saying to myself, "Maybe tomorrow night." or, "I'll just hit some plain leaf instead." It's just that intense.

I haven't smoked DMT so I can't really compare, to be honest. Although I still would agree with you that DMT can take you places Salvia cannot, and vice versa. Again, I haven't smoked DMT so take my opinion for what you will, but I think they're equally powerful in their own right.

This discussion might be different if we were comparing extracted DMT and pure salvinorin crystals....

Well, there’s lots of individual variation in response to effects of psychoactive substances, so anything said about any of them, and especially things said about how they compare, is probably going to be an over-generalization.

My view of salvia may be a bit biased, since I’ve never had a seriously traumatic experience with it. I’ve had a few difficult ones, but for the most part, my salvia experiences have been pleasant.

One difference between salvia (at least for me) that’s worth noting is the consistency of salvia experiences. I always weigh my extract, and I can be fairly certain that a given weight will always produce an experience of a certain strength/depth. The content of the experience will vary (of course), but the intensity is very dependent on dose and therefore very predictable.

Not so with DMT. A breakthrough dose (for me, about 26mg) will sometimes yield a sub-breakthrough experience and other times produce an experience of unexpected intensity. The unpredictability is one factor that contributes to pre-launch anxiety.

Another difference(for me) : A moderate to high dose of salvia always produces ego death – no memories of my past, including my very recent past. Suddenly I find my “self” in a strange place. I don’t know who I am, and often don’t know what I am. I have no memories of an earthly existence, the life I left behind, etc.

A moderate to high dose of DMT may produce extreme ego death, or it may leave my ego fully intact. During my most intense and difficult DMT experience, I was fully “me” and clearly aware of my past, my relationships with others, my “normal” state of mind, and I was aware of all I was leaving behind.

I’ve noticed that some people talk about ego death as if it’s frightening and best avoided, but I’ve always thought of ego death as a kind of protective balm – when you have no sense of who or what you are, or what is normal, it is much easier to accept whatever situation you happen to find yourself in.

Anyhow, the predictability of experience intensity and the almost guaranteed ego death that salvia provides makes it much less anxiety provoking than DMT.

Let me begin by explaining my experience with salvia, the first time i ever tried it was probly 4 years ago when my friend brought a gram of 20x to my house and started smokeing it befor explaining what it was. holy shit was i suprised when he cleared a bowl and then got up mumbling and walking into walls. after he came back i asked him what i had just seen him do to himself, after a short description of the effects he packed me a bowl and the rest was unforgetable. i then sat on the couch and cleared the bowl in 2 hits imediatly placing the bong on the ground for safe keeping. it hit me like a wave all of a suddon i was covered in sweat and being sucked into a spiral vortex shooting out of the TV. after being enveloped but the television i had this profound thought of homer simpson being a truely beautiful father figure, being what was on the tv with me at the moment. after that about 10 or 15 mins of complete maddness took over not knowing how to stand or walk completely, it was a little scary wich is why i avoided the wonderful plant for so long. after a 3 or 4 year break from it i decided to try some home grown salvia with a 5x top and since i was on lsd at the time it was one of the best times of my life. after the first 2 bowls i could bend the salvia visions and colors to my will and talk to the plant in a way that it submited itself to me or so i understood it to. ever since that night i have been able to shoot off in the direction of my own mind and not where the plant has intended to launch me which is somthing i have never encounterd with any other substance in my life befor. deep beautiful love surrounds salvia and i will allways take her with me. and no i have never seen the effects of reverse tolerence with her.

For me,

The first toke is always the easiest, whether it be Salvia or DMT.

It's after going through the experience that leaves me with a sense of apprehension for continual exploration.