Jungleheart wrote:


It's actually the FDIC that insures our money up to $250,000 now. And it has no where near enough funds to cover everyone, it actually didn't have enough money already during the bank failures that happened in 2009. This is a double edged sword though, it allows banks to invest recklessly because if they fail they know their bets are covered.

1664 wrote:


I agree, not all banks are evil, and I love capitalism, real capitalism though, not this corporatist crony capitalism we are being fed. If we had real freemarket capitalism most of these huge banks that were the cause of this mess we are in would have failed when they became insolvent, and would have been bought up by banks that where actually doing the right thing, instead of being bailed out. Instead the corrupt giant ones have just became bigger.

What I would like see happen is a return to a gold or silver backed currency, the reinstatement of the glass-steagal act, the end of the federal reserve, and governments actually enforcing fraud laws against banks.

Nice discussion developing here.

I too would like to see the return to a monetairy policy backed by something more substantial than debt. The market paradigm and capitalism are two very succesfull tools to describe human activity and generate wealth, as has been proven by recent history so far. It is the need for growth, wich is perpetuated by accumulating debt and the need to repay it wich transforms these tools into the rat race we live in (among other things but I feel this takes the cake). It is the very nature of this preset in the system that it creates losers and winners, it makes it so that there will never be enough to reset the system to zero. This is where the banks play their role, it is their modus operandi, the aforementioned fractional reserve banking system that is the mechanics of an in my mind cruel ideology that will always divide the world into winners and losers.

I'm not saying the thing I posted is the way to go, on the contrary (as has been amply stated above), but it seems like an outcry of an angry man. And millionaire or not, I think he's voicing the ideas of a very large percentage of the population. Tht's why I asked: Is this real? Because if it is I feel it has the potential to become a starting point of something. Or the death of something if shit hits the fan and it doesn't turn out the way he hopes. Haven't really figured that one out quite yet.

BTW It's nice to be back on the Nexus. Been away for quite some time and have been lurking around for a week or two now. Lotta new faces i see.

we dont need banks, insurance companies, or capitalism to have things like computers. men in suits dont make technology possible, engineers, free thinkers, and technicians (with free time) build and maintain these things.
if we didn't have capitalism, we would probably be more advanced then we are right now. this ism and debt is keeping us perpetually worried about paying the bills, and saving for retirement instead of being productive and working to our true potential, and the betterment of humanity.\
capitalism is destroying the ecosystem. there is just no checks, no entity to say enough is enough. (ex. gulf spill)
every dollar we spend is a vote.

I'm sorry dude, but that simply isn't true. It is investment in capital by groups of entrepreneurial people (generally in suits) that allows companies to make and develop products. There will be billiant individuals who come up with ideas, but their research will generally be funded by either universities, or research wings of corpoations. Both of which are dependent on their industry pay masters. The motivation to develop the latest, greatest microchip, lampshade, double glazed window or whatever is currently provided by the opportunity to make money.

I see a lot of people especially in psy communities who rage against money and capitalism without understanding a great deal about it, or offering any realisic alternative. How would we "be more advanced than we are right now" without capitalism? Unless by advanced you mean in some way other than the usual measures of wealth, health and technological improvement etc?

As for saving for retirement instead of being productive? I dont understand that point. In order to save for anything you must produce more than you consume. That sounds productive to me, but again, please clarify and correct me if I am wrong.

As for your last point re: the environment, I completely agree. The only entity which can say "enough is enough" is us. As you suggest, you vote with your money. If you dont want environmentally harmful companies, dont buy their stuff. This can be assisted by government regulation and assistance in setting up alternatives.

I'm not saying there is no alternative to capitalism, but how else do you manage the expectatoins of 6 billion people? I actually believe any system that is bult on perpetual growth is doomed to fail at some point. But I dont have a better idea, so for now I'm getting on with it.

Bingo. Honestly I hope the people thinking of crashing the banks are smart enough to do two things. 1) Buy food before they do it. 2) buy gold or silver before they do it.

If we crash the banking system the fix is going to be the gold standard again. When the US decoupled from this standard godl was $30 dollars. Today it's around $1400.00. That's the amount of wealth th eUS has lost...how much more will will loose before it all unfolds?

Capitalism is good and has it's place, but it's out of control. American capitalism needs to go and what ever aftermath we have to live with then we have to live with. Right now we are robbing future generations to pay for our generation when in reality we should realize that we are renting our time from future generations and we should respect the world as such.

Capitalism is a race to use up all the resources on the planet. It's time has come and gone. Much good has come from capitalism, but much harm has come as well. End fractional reserve banking. You can lend what you have. Then our kids and grandkids will have a shot at building the world we were supposed to have.

see how dependant we are on silly ideas?..you cant eat gold or silver..I know people depend on clingly notions and ideas like monetary systems..but I cant take it seriousily..of course I have to pay bills etc..only becasue everyone else does it..where we are on a planetary level cant sustain all of this though..people are starving and shooting each other..alot of it based on these silly ideas of ownership over this and that etc..it's all silly. People dont like to hear the truth is all..they get insecure..

Do we really need more shitty velcro walmart shoes and ikea chairs?..do we need fast food and hummers?..mansions and millionaires?..do we need a new cell phone every year?..people are starving to death and we have the ability to feed every single one of those people, yet we arent..so how far in the end is this apparent sophisticated culture and its advanced monetary sytems getting us?..when we cant even feed the children??...

We only have things here becasue middle class soccor moms can afford to buy their kids all the crap they want at walmart while poor little children in banladesh or god knows where slave away living in dirt huts to make it for them..it goes on and on..

Yeah..talk about short sighted.

People talk about what we will have later on etc..but that the hell does that even mean?..where did it all go?....if not us, then who is that will have it?..bankers? ..get rid of them. Easy as that. No more middle man.

Barter is fine, but realize that you cant eat a god damn bar of gold or silver..people need to loosen the grasp they hold psychologically onto these things..obviousily there is other complications there, such as the fact that to even do that we need a fair society globally that isnt concerned anymore with blowing each other up..alot of that has to do with money though as well and centralized banking.

I want to stress here that I am not saying we just crash the banks and descend into chaos..although sometimes chaos is inevitable..just that the current banking system is a symptom of a more discusting side of our current cultural operating system, and is the cause of soo much suffering and struggling..

What we need to do is stop supporting these huge corperations like walmart as much as possible..support smaller local companies and fair trade..be conscious with the money we have becasue that is truely our only real vote..how we direct our money in this economy..stop supporting the banks whenever possible..

People dont need all the crap they have in the west..alot of it is just junk that buy to try to satisfy a part of themselves that is unhappy and sick..you have to be careful though..there is alot of hype in the whole "green movement" thing..some of it is good, some of it is just these big corperations catching on trying to rip you off as they wear that mask..so we need to be informed and act consciousily..support each other and do what is really right..it will take time but things will work themsleves out.

We dont need cloths made in china that some business men mark up 100%..we dont need fast food and over processed food etc..we dont need a new tv every year, or new SUV's to drive around the city..there is alot of shit we buy that we dont need. The way to weed out the parts of this economy that are hurting us is really through the way we spend our money. Grow your own food, hunt and fish if you eat meat when possible..support local organic farmers..learn to wildcraft and heal with herbs when you can..eat properly so you arent falling back on broken health care systems to fix your problems all the time..we need to be responciple..everything counts..the less dependant we are on these huge corperate entites the better. If you show them that the crap they are selling, we arent buying then they will be forced to either lower prices and raise standards or just give up.

^^

That is getting somewhere. I think the biggest problem with what is going on now is that as it stands now it all hinges on people continuing to buy crap they don't need, but with the recent crash some people are smartening up that weren't before and not continuing to have these bad purchasing habits. Luckily I live (well I did choose to stay here so maybe not lucky) in an area where I can get lots of great local food and there are tons of small businesses to support and I pretty much never need to resort to buying from people I don't support.

One thing I think that would be great is cut the work week down. We do not need to produce all this shit as fast as we are, there is so much waste even at this gross rate of consumption. Cutting down the work week would give the population much needed free time as well and contribute to people's quality of life.

yeah working so much is another issue..who the hell wants to work 40+ hours a week??..not me.

I think crashing the banks is a bad idea for the aforementioned ideas. Libertarians (see Cato) often propose eliminating institutions gradually to prevent the shock. However, fractional reserve banking is doomed to failure. If they want to destroy the banks, they can go right ahead. Withdrawing all that cash will crash them only because of the huge flaw in fractional reserve banking.

Capitalism is a wonderful thing. Government intervention and materialism are it's biggest flaws. An anarchic/archaeic paradise is only possible through psychological and technological change, politics and government will not help.

"There are no political solutions, only technological ones. The rest is propaganda." - Jacques Ellul (quoted by McKenna)

The quote is somewhat out of context considering Ellul's views on technology, but I love it. The change you seek is in the human mind and technology. What are those things called that dramatically affect one's state of mind?

yes, i agree. this is how it works in a capitalistic society.



i started to understand the true effects of capitalism at age 5. i was out in our back yard, and i was thirsty. i knelt down at the small stream to get a drink, and my father yelled 'dont drink that water, its polluted'! do you remember nat. geographic 'world' magazine for kids? i was reading ranger rick when i was 6. there was always cartoons of awful landfills and polluted coral sea beds. this is the real consequence of rampant capitalism.

what is wealth without clean water? i have, in recent years developed symptoms of asthma. i believe it is from environmental pollution. this is from growing up on the east coast of usa.

what is wealth without being healthy?

it seems that for every good technological improvement we get, there is something else that is just idiotic, and dosent serve any purpose other than to make people money.
how about carbon credits? there's a real good idea.

how about mandatory 30 mpg for all new cars being produced in the usa. what!@##@ this was far surpassed in 1930's by Bukminster Fuller's dymaxxion car.---not that we need petro at all!!! but that is another story.

it is capitalism, and greed of course.

the large banks are the worst, especially the imf
all they do is make loans to small countries in need, and attach an interest rate that is impossible to repay, so perpetuating debt. and when debt cannot be re-payed, they send in cronies to gobble up precious resources (that they already had their eyes on).

Fractal. Suffice it to say that on a ideaology level I agree with you whole heartedly brother. Unfortunately we live in human time scales, meaning our lives will be measured in the 50-100 year range. The monetary system has been around for a very very very long time. Thousands, tens of thousands of years. In our life times we won't see the end of money. If we do I sincerely pray for all of our souls because the transition will be such that billions of people will likely die. Not because you, nor I, nor others around aren't willing to share, but because so many will not be able to. How many long cigar smoking board room CEO's do you really think want to share water rights with you or I? They don't. They largely think we are either A) scum bags, or B) Consumes that can potentially buy their products.

If you plan to help crash the banks ( I know you don't) then I recommend owning some gold and food. The food will get you past the first part of the aftermath. The gold will help you find away back on your feet in the new world that will be rapidly changing and wiedling to those with the balls to shape it. Long before it all stabalizes and a new "we all share the world" order arises you and I and everyone else on this board will be long dead.

Embrace the world you live in and do your best to make you change by following Ghandi's advice.

--You must be the change you wish to see in the world ~~ Ghandi.

Amen brother, amen.

This I agree with 100%. Be the change you want to see. It's really all we can do and it will have the biggest impact of all. IMHO.

Biopsylo

So true...


Much Peace and Happiness

I'm with you to a point, but health has dramatically improved in the west over the last 100 years. There are costs associated with that, that we are probably only just realising, but I am relatively wealthy and relatively healthy vs societies that are "outside" of our system.

I agree a lot of production is not needed. The issue I have with saying that, is that I / you / we are as much a part of the problem, as much a cog in the machine as the corporate CEO chewin' on his cigar. It is a double standard to say you hate capitalism, whilst staring at the screen of your Dell laptop, which is running on MS Windows.

There is a lot of ignorant idealism banded around. Real alternatives and progression towards a more sustainable model are what we need, and such ideas as you suggest are great steps in that direction. Ideas like (no offense intended fractal) growing our own food and hunting our own meat are idealistic and not really workable for populations as large as we have in the west.

If you want that system, then the world cannot sustain anything like its current population. Over population is a main threat to the environment. But hey, you have to put your money where your mouth is, and as so many have said, be the change you want to see. If enough people agree with you, it will happen.

as Terence McKenna said we need to stop making things out of stuff.

i was impressed with this interview from m.moore's film sicko/..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LnY-jy_cE0



yep, i agree again, just that i didn't say i 'hated', did i? i sure hope not. and thank goodness im not running windows -jk



i dont think the world is over populated, there is an over abundance of food. just there is not a fair system of sharing earths' precious resources in an ecological way among her stewards.

Well, it would be poor forum etiquette to type in caps lock, but that is right on the money. Dead on.

All monetary systems will eventually fail. Money is not the key or the answer its just temporary. A stupid invention that will eventually run its course.