I've heard that DMT and ayahuasca especially are considered spiritual.

I certainly have had very spiritual/religious experiences, and I would say I have been converted from an atheist to more of an agnostic with regard to the existence of supreme/superior beings and unseen dimensions that affect us or that we can interact with.

I would like to know if anyone here has had a significant shift in their belief system as a result of a psychedelic experience. Also, how were you able to justify this shift in beliefs to others and to yourself, given that your experience was the result of a drug trip?

DMT shattered all my religious and spiritual beliefs once and for all. It solidified my atheism in a way no other substance has.

Perhaps this is because DMT can produce such reproducible religious or spiritual visions in many people. Therefore it makes it seem like all religion throughout all time is just people messed up on drugs whether taken externally or endogenous.

burnt: just to get it straight, you were what before DMT? agnostic? isn't that interesting how it solidified your atheism and it reduced mine?

I was a hardline athiest and mushrooms made me agnostic if thats worth anything.

No it has not. In my eyes it's all neural chemistry. Made me wonder though. How does dmt works in brain exactly (hmmmm....)


Regards.

Nothing on the other side has convinced me that there is a god or that there isn't a god. I do think some people can misconstrue the experience and think it to be something more than it is. Often these people who make a radical change in such a manner are mentally unstable as it is. Not saying it cannot change perspective and open the mind ot new possibilites but all the sudden changing your entire belief system because of a journey signals a problem IMHO.

I was agnostic before DMT.

I'm still agnostic (leaning towards atheist), but DMT showed me that everything in the universe is one in the same, which made me much more open and respecting of people and idea There is no hate in my heart. I learned not to sweat the small stuff..

DMT got me interested in physics and quantum theory, and re-sparked my interest in mathematics. (after my first breakthrough one of the first things I thought was "I need to figure out quantum mechanics" and I have 0 physics background so that was a very odd thought to have.

DMT also got me interested in Kriya yoga to see if I can replicate the feeling of oneness via meditation.

I definitely have grown as a person!

I never believed in spirits before I drank Ayahuasca...

Now I am simply part of the Organism Earth, a sentient creature living within a sentient creature made of sentient creatures. All life is so infinitely precious. Life is sacred. Life is my religion.

I was so depressed I used to want to commit suicide and didn't care enough about anything to even declare myself nihilist. If I had to make a checklist of the way my mind has changed, I register very closely to Jain and that was all of Ayahuasca's doing. I never intended to be Jain. Sometimes I still eat carrots.

I feel the deepest sanctity in life, and I strive to connect more to the great web... whatever that is. Neural chemistry is a part of it, surely.

But does because we can all physically experience these things necessarily invalidate them? What if "god" is everywhere, in everything, or WHATEVER, and it takes a precise neural tweak to really see it?

I didn't have any particular religious view prior DMT use, just a general interest in spirituality.

DMT and ayahuasca left me more with an idea that this shit is REAL than any idea of what shit exactly I was thinking about. The spiritual stuff of the universe was something I thought of fairly metaphorically, but encounters with things changed that... I'd say if I held any one belief system I would consider myself a gnostic, seen with a hint of Jungian psychology and a firm belief in spirits.

I don't see how DMT could make one doubt religious revelations. If anything, it made me doubt "reality". It showed that a tweak in brain chemistry can show one God... so either our brain chemistry is entirely untrustworthy, which would include right now, or there is truth in what DMT can show us. Who's to say what's real? If we trust the seratonin, why should we deem DMT untrustworthy when it ALSO shows us semi-comprehensible realities?

I agree with minxx, what if it just requires a slight neural tweak to see the God of everywhere?

i was a much more spiritual/ new age thinker before dmt. now, my work with dmt and ayahuasca has definitely pulled me twords a much more science based thinking. its not that i dont believe in any mysticism or some paranormal events its that i feel that nothing happens outside of physics or science. we just may not be advanced enough yet to show this. so if their is a god it lays within our physical laws therefor to me cant be defined as GOD.

if anything the line gets blurry for me from dmt as to what the fuck is even real in the first place. im not entirely sure that perceived reality is actual reality anymore. after all there no way to prove that anything exists outside of your own consciousness.

dmt has got me very curious about the subject of consciousness. i no longer give one moments thought to where Atlantis is or the power of healing crystals. trying to formulate a clearer understanding of consciousnesses is top dog right now for me since i discovered dmt 4years ago.

not to sound like a total whack-o but the most promising new idea ive heard is the "simm reality" theory. after what ive experienced with dmt it seems like the most likely. in short it postulates that humanoids can evolve their computer technology to such an advanced degree that its very possible to replicate an entire photo realistic simm universe that the inhabitants would never know they are part of. a reality within another reality.

im not saying i believe in this idea but its flipping interesting. read up on it for a fun brain teaser.

DMT has firmly established the notion that anything is possible..... and I have no idea what I am, and therefore by extension, anything in the universe. How can I know anything about anything if I don't know what I am? It's not that I refute ideas about myself, or the universe, this isn't a revelation that interfers with my ability to function in the world. I've just been shown that ideas break down depending on whatever state one happens to find themself in. DMT has shown that everything is a matter of perception..... and dmt has also introduced new perceptions I would have never imagined even possible. Doors have been opened. Magic has been experienced. I happen to find myself in this state right now, so I can type this. What does this mean as far God? It means.... maybe there is, maybe not. And if there is, that said God would still be a matter of perception.

My list of "what is possible, inspired by DMT" includes "a scientific language that fully explains the mystical inspired through heightened neurochemistry."

I think There Exists What Exists... mysticism is a language that speaks to the right brain, science is a language that speaks to the left, but in the end, it's all language, it's all the same thing, we're looking through different lenses... Perspective is the issue...

SWIM was well on my way to not believing in any gods/god before dmt. When I was like 12 I realized christianity was all BS. Then during teen years/young adult psychedelics were kind of a spiritual outlet. Made me wonder about things like universal consciousness or some spirit at the end of the tunnel perhaps an after life. But the more I got into science through my education and career the more that slipped away.

DMT just confirmed what I was already thinking. The reason is because its an endogenous neurotransmitter that can so profoundly alter consciousness. I'm not saying all religious experience is dmt induced but its just tricks in the brain effecting man kind for thousands of years. In other words substances like dmt and other mind altering states are an explanation for all the weird things that happened to people in the past. Religion was sometimes their explanation. Plus SWIM had a rough ride with pharmahuasca that made SWIM unwilling to live in a world with any sort of god. It was basically like what if a god like Allah was real. DMT showed me that and it was horrible.

I feel like most of us had been taught same lesson by spice experiences. It is 'spiritual' or 'visionary', but not in sense that you run to church in trip afterglow (that could be fun though). It rather opens your eyes and you see that 'reality' is more like 'relativity'.
By the way I'm really scared of :evil: Dogmatic Religions:evil: . I'm more scared of religions than nationalism, dictatorship etc. Look what brahmanism, hinduism, islam, judaism, kristianity did throughout the history. (I love to play Sid Meier's Civilization last 20 years ) You see you can revolt against dictator, king etc., but you can't agains G.O.D. Scary shit. In parallel universe where dogmatic religion rules the planet, instead of police there is holly inquisition...and they burn aya drinkers for witchcraft in public

Anyway I got carried away a bit from topic for what I'm sorry...


Regards.

You know the nexus is the most intense classroom I have ever been in
Forget the spice you people have taught me so much more than the drug ever has
you are all brilliant in your own unique way
Thanks professors

Beautifully said Mr vovin! Thanks y'all for a fascinating discussion. As for me, I would say I'm atheist, with the slight leaning to being agnostic. Certainly through this amazing substance I have had some of my most beautiful, mysterious and eye opening experiences of my life. I know I know very little and don't have many answers, but the older I get and the more deeply into science I go there more sceptical I become. I think there is a beauty to atheism though...if there is no light at the end of the tunnel, it makes our time on this amazing planet all the more precious and beautiful. If life gives you lemons...go make a tasty cocktail!

Could you guys imagine wanting to join an ayahuasca church, like Santo Daime or something? I wonder if anyone here at the nexus has ever been in one of these churches or joined one.
I generally abhor organized belief systems, since my beliefs change so often, but it would be nice to have a community of fellow ayahuasqueros.

The thing I don't get about ayahuasca "communities" is how can you drink ayahuasca socially?? I can't even move my body once the effects hit hard, and furthermore, I think that being with other people would hinder it from working at all... except maybe to make me more hypnotizable...

Oh, thats not a parallel universe, you are describing the one we live in! Ok, they dont burn you, you dont die a horrible death within 10-20 minutes. They just snatch your kids from you if you happen to have, they might freeze your assets if they think you might give it to others and you get put in a prison with a whole array of interesting fellows. The whole proccess will take money out of your bank account and when you are released your record might give you trouble to whatever further endeavors you have. Unfortunatelly this lasts more than 20 minutes.



Depends with what you mean "socially". Socially doesnt always have to be "party like", or being able to hold chit-chat with the other attendees. Also it doesnt have to be "moving around". It can be a bunch of people sitting in a circle or dropped on the floor, each one of them doing their thing.

I would love to try that Santo church ritual or amazon shaman yage ritual. I mean they overdose you with something like 2g of harmalas and like half gram of DMT from chaliponga (who knows what else is there ). It should be brutal experience. But you not there alone and you have experienced man babysitting you. The same goes with iboga. I can't do this at home...


Regards.

Yeah...... that parallel universe is not that far from current one: