Nothing Stops The Void
Posts: 739 Joined: 19-Jun-2008 Last visit: 26-Nov-2013 Location: Blinded by the Lye
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I recently aquired some of this stuff , quite a lot aqtually - I had 2 latenight trials with doses around 200mg and noticed a definite effect. Its hard to describe (No Skin-Flushing) . Has anyone experience with this? It sounded to me like an interesting supplement and trip aid especially with LSA/LSH ("most psychedelics are vasoconstrictors" )
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PicamilonPlease have a look its relatively small amount of information that i could find on the net: wiki wrote:Picamilon (also known as nicotinoyl-GABAm Pycamilon, Pikamilon, etc) is a dietary supplement formed by combining niacin with GABA. It was developed in the Soviet Union in 1969 by the All-Union Vitamins Scientific Research Institute[1][2] and further studied in both Russia[3] and Japan as a prodrug of GABA.[4] Picamilon is sold in the United States as a dietary supplement, while in Russia it is sold over the counter. The rights to the drug belong to pharmaceutical company NPK EKhO ("НПК ЭХО"  , Moscow, Russia. Contents [hide] * 1 Mechanism of action and potential therapeutic applications * 2 Medical use in Russia * 3 References * 4 External links [edit] Mechanism of action and potential therapeutic applications Picamilon is able to cross the blood-brain barrier[5] and then is hydrolyzed into GABA and niacin. The released GABA in theory would activate GABA receptors potentially producing an anxiolytic response.[6] The second released component, niacin acts as a strong vasodilator,[7] which might be useful for the treatment of migraine headaches.[8][9] [edit] Medical use in Russia In Russia, Picamilon is used for treatment of these illness.[10] 1. Violations of cerebral blood flow (ischemic acute, subacute and rehabilitation period of ischemic stroke, chronic insufficiency of cerebral blood flow); 2. Vasoneurosis; 3. Asthenia; 4. Depression; 5. Senile psychosis; 6. Alcohol (period of abstinence), acute alcohol intoxication; 7. Migraine 8. Craniocerebral trauma 9. Neuroinfections; 10. Primary open-angle glaucoma (for stabilization of visual function). dosage advice from a supplier wrote:50mg-100mg one to three times daily - according to individual needs with a big glass of water It sounds like interesting stuff but then... not many sources of experience reports. Do you think one can get hypervitaminosis from the Niacin if used as regular medication?  Observant Had he more quickly realized just who they were,he would have shown them more respect.Had he tried harder to fathom their brilliant minds,he would have taken more of their teachings to heart.Had he more clearly understood the purpose of their being,
he would have more vigorously tried to assist them.They were truly honorable; he was sadly prejudiced.
They were exceedingly well informed; he was grossly ignorant.They were totally indefatigable; he so often, and so quickly,gave up. Still, for many years there was a strong inter-species alliance between the Eleven-Eleven of the Half-way Realm, their Seraphic Associates,and their flesh-and-blood friend, a common mortal. Much was accomplished, many profited, and, there’s only one regret...They could have achieved so much more...
All Hypnotizing Hypnotizes Hypnotizing
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 681 Joined: 11-Sep-2010 Last visit: 24-Dec-2011
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I've tried Phenibut (another Russian GABAergic) and I enjoy that, haven't tried Picamilon yet.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 369 Joined: 27-Apr-2009 Last visit: 09-Dec-2011 Location: nexus
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love the stuff. also known as "picamilon".
lower doses are supposed to be sedating vs higher more stimulating, all very subtle in effect i.e. no buzz to speak of. definitely not placebo, comparable to thujone or theanine yet different in character. no where near as strong as phenibut.
lower doses are slightly sedating. 50mg sublingual with 1mg melatonin 30 min before bed gives some wild dreams. the 50mg on it's own is my favorite sleep aid.
normal doses (100mg+) don't mix well with sulbutiamine, causing anxiety. it does go well with acetyl-l-carnatine and/or coffee and/or fish oil and/or methylcobalamin. it is neither fogging nor focusing with regard to concentration, affects other things.
I don't use it daily to avoid potential crutching etc, so I don't know anything about that. there are other forums with people who are relatively informed about these things which would answer the question. probably depends on dose/frequency, maybe balancing the b3 with the rest of the b-complex. google for "picamilon long term usage" or something similar.
can't say whether or not it affects any psychedelics, no experience.
thujone has decreased visuals of spice in some, it's a gaba-ergic as well. picamilon might be more useful as a calmative like chamomile tea, or even on the tail end of the trip to help coming back/down quicker.
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Nothing Stops The Void
Posts: 739 Joined: 19-Jun-2008 Last visit: 26-Nov-2013 Location: Blinded by the Lye
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Interesting post azrael thx. whats crutching? i dont know that word. Do you know about tolerance Buildup as with phenibut? Does Picamilon work consistently with the same doses? Had he more quickly realized just who they were,he would have shown them more respect.Had he tried harder to fathom their brilliant minds,he would have taken more of their teachings to heart.Had he more clearly understood the purpose of their being,
he would have more vigorously tried to assist them.They were truly honorable; he was sadly prejudiced.
They were exceedingly well informed; he was grossly ignorant.They were totally indefatigable; he so often, and so quickly,gave up. Still, for many years there was a strong inter-species alliance between the Eleven-Eleven of the Half-way Realm, their Seraphic Associates,and their flesh-and-blood friend, a common mortal. Much was accomplished, many profited, and, there’s only one regret...They could have achieved so much more...
All Hypnotizing Hypnotizes Hypnotizing
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4639 Joined: 16-May-2008 Last visit: 24-Dec-2012 Location: A speck of dust in endless space, like everyone else.
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I've seen a TV program about zolpidem, wich also affects the GABA-receptor and is a popular sleep-aid. It showed that many coma-patients miraculously recovered from their coma after being given this drug.
I don't know whether the effects of zolpidem or picamillon are simmilar in any way, i've always stayed away from GABA-agonists myself, but it seems that GABA-receptors are an interesting topic and capable of more than just causing sedating effects if triggered.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 369 Joined: 27-Apr-2009 Last visit: 09-Dec-2011 Location: nexus
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"crutching" was meant as becoming reliant on something, using it as a crutch, so that you require it to get through the day or feel normal. the goal is to avoid physical and psychological dependence so that psychosomatic situations like "didn't get my picamilon today, gonna have anxiety issues" don't happen. I don't think "crutching" is a real word, but the concept is real.
not aware of a tolerance as there is with phenibut.
same doses: seems to work consistently with the same doses, but again it's subtle and there's other factors. I haven't found a need to increase dosages when it is used sparingly, though I've never done even a whole week of daily use so I can't speak for anything like that.
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Nothing Stops The Void
Posts: 739 Joined: 19-Jun-2008 Last visit: 26-Nov-2013 Location: Blinded by the Lye
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I am really interested in how this interacts with various psychedelics (increase or decrease of effects?) I have had different effects from the same dosage (around200mg) sometimes more of a sedative sometimes more of a stimulant. Quote:Picamilon is an amazingly powerful compound with antioxidant properties, which has been available for over 25 years. Its primary use has been to support normal structure and function during aging. According to the third party literature, Picamilan has been used for nutritional support in the following situations: 1) tiredness and irritability, 2) depression, 3) decreased energy, 4) misuse of alcohol, and 5) anxiety.
An important benefit of using Pickamilon is that it is not a sedative, which means you can use Pickamilon and still drive and operate machinery, unlike when using tranquilizers (Picamilan, however, is not a substitute for medications prescribed by your physician.)
Picamilon shows different results at different dosages. A: The lower dosage, 50mg 3 times a day will achieve a tranquilizing nutritional effect. B.Increasing the dosage to 100 mg 3 times a day will bring about the nutritional stimulation effect and increase endurance.
The effects of Picamilon are felt quickly, most people will notice an impact within an hour and the body usually retains Pickamilon for up to six hours. It crosses the blood brain barrier easily, which is why the results are normally experienced so rapidly.
Pickamilon is a cleverly combined combination of the nutrients GABA and NIACIN. This chemical bonding of the two means the manufacturing process is formidable. Picamilon is an excellent substitute for minaprine and pramiracetam.
When Picamilon is used at the highest level, (250-300 mg per day) studies prove it to be more stimulating than piracetam and to have a more pronounced effect than vinpocetine. Other studies have shown Pickamilon has the ability to support blood circulation, and blood supply to the brain, in a manner far superior to the results achieved with either Hydergine or Xanthinol Nicotinate.
Picamilon has an extremely low toxicity and has shown no carcinogenic properties. In summation, as a nutrient Picamilan is a stimulating tranquilizer and can produce results more quickly than other products like Hydergine, Piracetam and Vinpocetine.
Description: Picamilan was first synthesized from nutrients in 1970. It is a white crystalline power that is odorless, highly hygroscopic and readily soluble in water. It is a combination of niacin and GABA in the same molecule, which increases to potency of each component (n-nicotinoyl uniquely bonded to GABA - gamma aminobutyric acid).
Method of Action: Affects cerebral circulation and neural regulation in similar manner to gamma aminobutyric acid (GABA). Anti-edematous action of Picamilan is linked with a change in energy metabolism in neurologic tissue.
Suggested Intake
Normal dosage(.01 to .05 grams). Acts on cerebral circulation and neural regulation to support a natural tranquilizing effect, restore balance between sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems, reduce the emotional effects of life stress and inhibit anxiety and aggression. May also be helpful in the nutritional support of Premenstrual Syndrome and Migraine Headaches. In higher doses (80-160 mg/kg) has a reciprocal stimulation effect. Does not induce muscle relaxation, drowsiness or lethargy.
Dosage and Administration: Time course of accumulation of Picamilan in the brain correlates with its blood level. Effect In: Approximately 30 minutes.
Adverse Reactions: Picamilan produces no known allergenic, teratogenic, embryotoxic or carcinogenic effects..
Known Interactive Effects: Valerian Root may inhibit the breakdown of GABA thereby enhancing its activity in the brain. Ginseng may also potentiate the activity of GABA Quote:
Picamilon possesses high cerebrovascular activity, which exceeds the effect of cinnarizine, papaverine, xanthinol niacinate, and piracetam, which are its ingredients. One of the most important components is its nootropic effect, which determines its clinical use to a significant degree. Picamilon has a unique tranquilizing effect, and the manifestation of action is inferior to diazepam. In this case, Picamilon does not cause a myorelaxation effect, such as some other similar drugs do. The important property of Picamilon is the ability to restore quickly mental and physical fitness for work, which was lost through overstress of most patients. Clinical experience with application of Picamilon shows that it is effective for ischemic disturbances of cerebral blood circulation. Furthermore, it is effective and for discirculatory encephalopathy, vegetative dystonia, and for prevention and treatment of the simple form of migraine. Picamilon has proven an effective medicinal treatment for patients with disorders of a neurotic level, with anxiety, fear, emotional and vegetative instability. Picamilon finds a use in the complex treatment of alcoholism. The list of indications for prescription of Picamilon is constantly growing, because it possesses favorable properties in opthalmological practice in the treatment of primary open glaucoma.
Quote:Picamilon, a sodium salt of N-nicotinoyl-gamma-aminobutyric acid, was shown to induce a significant increase of cerebral blood flow in conscious cats. Picamilon was found to inhibit neurogenic spasms of cerebral vessels that was followed by suppression of tonic activity and reflectory discharges in sympathetic nerves. Picamilon led to restoration of the initial condition of cerebral hemodynamics disturbed by a previous administration of serotonin. http://www.lef.org/prod_hp/abstracts/picamilon.htmHad he more quickly realized just who they were,he would have shown them more respect.Had he tried harder to fathom their brilliant minds,he would have taken more of their teachings to heart.Had he more clearly understood the purpose of their being,
he would have more vigorously tried to assist them.They were truly honorable; he was sadly prejudiced.
They were exceedingly well informed; he was grossly ignorant.They were totally indefatigable; he so often, and so quickly,gave up. Still, for many years there was a strong inter-species alliance between the Eleven-Eleven of the Half-way Realm, their Seraphic Associates,and their flesh-and-blood friend, a common mortal. Much was accomplished, many profited, and, there’s only one regret...They could have achieved so much more...
All Hypnotizing Hypnotizes Hypnotizing
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Nothing Stops The Void
Posts: 739 Joined: 19-Jun-2008 Last visit: 26-Nov-2013 Location: Blinded by the Lye
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Niacin as an LSD Antidote?Quote:Niacin (NADH-dependent enzyme)
"One of the metabolites of LSD in the human body is 2-oxy-lsd.
It is formed by liver microsomes by an NADH-dependent enzyme,"
Nicholas J. Giarman (1967). ref. (Axelrod 1957; Hoffer 1955)
Use of nicotinic acid (niacin, B3) to abort psychosis - "We have
given the subject 100 ug. of LSD; at the height of the experience we
injected intravenously 200 mg. of nicotinic acid. Our experience has
been that, within a matter of two to five minutes, almost all of the LSD
phenomena disappeared, and the subject claimed that he was entirely
normal," Abraham Hoffer (1956) Quote:
picamilon might be more useful as a calmative like chamomile tea, or even on the tail end of the trip to help coming back/down quicker.
I guess youre spot on with this assumption I cant find much information on claimed MAOI properties ... have to look into that Havent found a list of substances its contraindicated to combine with ... surely there are some Had he more quickly realized just who they were,he would have shown them more respect.Had he tried harder to fathom their brilliant minds,he would have taken more of their teachings to heart.Had he more clearly understood the purpose of their being,
he would have more vigorously tried to assist them.They were truly honorable; he was sadly prejudiced.
They were exceedingly well informed; he was grossly ignorant.They were totally indefatigable; he so often, and so quickly,gave up. Still, for many years there was a strong inter-species alliance between the Eleven-Eleven of the Half-way Realm, their Seraphic Associates,and their flesh-and-blood friend, a common mortal. Much was accomplished, many profited, and, there’s only one regret...They could have achieved so much more...
All Hypnotizing Hypnotizes Hypnotizing
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Nothing Stops The Void
Posts: 739 Joined: 19-Jun-2008 Last visit: 26-Nov-2013 Location: Blinded by the Lye
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actualfactual wrote:I've tried Phenibut (another Russian GABAergic) and I enjoy that, haven't tried Picamilon yet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenibut From my experience, this molecue definetily introduces Phenethylamine (heightened senses) and GABA(relaxation) into the system (It is supposed to dissociate after crossing the BBB), both in a subtle way (well depending on dosage..). Whats kinda interesting to me - this Phenibut Stuff takes about 3hours to really kick in - the Effects then easily last for 13 hours. This made me think of our friend Mescaline  .  I wonder if there could be a positive synergy between those two Chemicals.... Anyone? obs Had he more quickly realized just who they were,he would have shown them more respect.Had he tried harder to fathom their brilliant minds,he would have taken more of their teachings to heart.Had he more clearly understood the purpose of their being,
he would have more vigorously tried to assist them.They were truly honorable; he was sadly prejudiced.
They were exceedingly well informed; he was grossly ignorant.They were totally indefatigable; he so often, and so quickly,gave up. Still, for many years there was a strong inter-species alliance between the Eleven-Eleven of the Half-way Realm, their Seraphic Associates,and their flesh-and-blood friend, a common mortal. Much was accomplished, many profited, and, there’s only one regret...They could have achieved so much more...
All Hypnotizing Hypnotizes Hypnotizing
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