That is true, salt form is very dry and easy to handle. Even jungle spice can be salted out in which case it is a nice solid in contrast to the honey-like texture it freebase equivalent. (should be nice to snort it, something SWIM hasn't done yet!)

And of course, it is a very nice way for getting clean freebase from it, since one can dissolve the salt in water, basify and pull with xylene. (SWIM says xylene because it can get the most of alkaloids out of the basified solution with the least amount of solvent used. DCM should work wonders here SWIM guesses..)

SWIM is supposed to be working on some ideas to get the freebase from the salt in fewer steps but he's soooo lazy lately....

Seems like this salting method could easily put all considerations about evaping xylene to rest. It's certainly got its uses, and if there's no evap involved, the fumes are a minor nuisance. Not to mention that SWIM'll finally have reasonable access to jungle-spice.

Some quick questions though, partially off-topic: SWIM's likely got some jungle-spice (from final extractions) in his xylene mixed in with a good amount of presumably pure spice (from the pipe-washing), and so SWIM'd imagine it'd be a good idea to keep this separate from a regular stash of spice? SWIM's concern is the difference in psychoactivity between the two. He should probably refrain from using the same xylene for both purposes anyway, but SWIM has a feeling the resulting product's going to have a pretty gritty character, regardless. Also, are there noticeable differences in hue or smell or between the jungle fumarate and the standard?



SWIM was also wondering how solid or rocky that precipitate turned out to be. Would one have to recrystallize in an NPS? Two days is a while though, perhaps there's a better polar solvent that could be basified and used in place of water (probably what you're considering anyway)? Otherwise, SWIM would probably pull with an NPS right off the bat, since freebase sediment in aqueous seems like a pain anyway.

SWIM is now repeating the freebase crystallisation inside the basified solution thing, this time taking pictures of the process. From his last experiment, the crystals seemed to be transparent with waxy feeling (they were sticking to the sides of the polypropylene tube as well as the bottom) and they could not be agitated. SWIM remembers shaking the basic solution to detach them from the sides (hoping that they will eventually fall on the bottom) but they didn't detach!

This was not much unexpected, if one imagines the freebase to have a waxy texture and to feel uncomfortable inside the aqueous solution...

But enough said about this one-off-freehanded-fool-around experiment! Unless this is not consistently repeated and properly documented by SWIM there's not much reason to talk about it!

And of course, as you mentioned the alternative is always the good ol' NP solvent route!

seems like the dmt.f fairy visited
ie, crystals no more

dang hygroscopic silliness
at least that confirms what they are, even a freebase wouldn't do that

Try sticking them in the oven; SWIM did that at 70 Celsius for I cannot remember, maybe half to 1 hour. They should quickly lose their moisture and become very solid!

dmt-fumarate is in fact quite hygroscopic but not as much as the other salts. At least it can be dried out. SWIM lately did some dmt-citrate, now this is some goo, it behaved exactly like honey.

(SWIM in the beginning tried a desiccator filled with silica gel to absorb the moisture from the dmt-fumarate. Eventually he found that oven works much much better and much much faster.)

Ok, complete success. Here's what was done:

Initially, no precipitate was seen, although it may have been too dilute to see.
Those crystals that formed I mentioned above were most definitely dmt.fumarate. Anyway, the entirety of the acetone (initially containing 500mg of dmt freebase and 500mg of fumaric acid) was allowed to evaporate.

There was an obvious mixture of components after evap. They were scraped up and found to be noticably wet (even though 50mL of the acetone does evaporate to dryness and there was no scent of acetone remaining).

The crystals were placed in a jar, covered with 100mL of fresh acetone and agitated in attempt to remove any excess fumaric acid. The solution was let to sit for an hour which allowed all the precipitate to fall to the bottom. The acetone was poured off being careful not to let any of the precipitate come out. The precipitate was allowed to 'dry' (evaporate the rest of the acetone until no scent remains). This took about half an hour. The powder was scraped and found to be completely dry, weighing in at 648mg !!!! That's bullshit accuracy if you ask me, but I'm not complaining. The powder is visibly a single component, water soluble, and extremely tangy on taste.

Ronue.. dude


Fyi,
By calculation, the amount of fumaric acid needed is 0.31 x the amount of dmt freebase used. For good measure, a 0.4 is used:

Future (and in progress) experiment:

-Dissolve 500mg of dmt freebase in 10mL of acetone (2mL/100mg)
-Dissolve 200mg of fumaric acid in 50mL of acetone (25mL/100mg)
-Add the the fumaric acid soln slowly(ish) to the dmt soln

for curiousity, pH was measured and found to be just slightly acidic - good!

after combining the two solution, a single solution which looked like milk was formed (dmt.fumarate precipitated). Within 15 minutes it can be seen that glass shard type crystals are forming. The jar is allowed to sit (covered) overnight to afford the crystallistaion ample time to complete.

-once crystallisation is complete, the acetone is poured off and the crystals are allowed to dry
-once no scent of acetone remains, the crystals are scraped up, powdered and added to 25mL of fresh acetone. Stirred well, allowed to settle for an hour or so, and then the acetone poured off, the crystals dried, scraped up and weighed. They should weight approx 1.3 times the weight of the dmt freebase used

I think I asked this already, but has anybody had experience with using the fumarate? I've read much about the process, and it definitely seems to be very good for storage, but what about using it as is? Anyone know anybody with experience? Was an MAOI snorted as well? Etc?

Hey drainlife,

50mg dmt-fumarate snorted just gave body load

150mg snorted gave a ~45min trip, fairly mild, very dreamy state, OEVs became apparent 3 min after snorting. CEVs contained musky tones, not bright colours but they had the typical tryptamine character. SWIM felt the presence of entities (or guides?). Overall, very manageable and worth trying.

It was not very manageable in the nose, 150mg is already a big amount, it burned a bit but nothing really too uncomfortable!

OK, this is the experiment describing the conversion of dmt fumarate to freebase without using any NP solvents, it just relies on the crystallisation of the freebase inside a basified solution.

Enjoy!

Just seeing the fumarate in the vial with no crumbs stuck to the sides was absolutely heart-warming.

Is there any significant loss with this method? Would you recommend mixing the filtered solution with the NPS before dissolving the freebase?

SWIM doesn't know...He just assumes that after 3 days all freebase must have crystallised. Still need to retrieve it and weight it. If it's less that ~70m then some of it still remains in the basic solution.

500mg salted came to 644mg on one occassion
on the other it was 648mg

Both times the they were washed with acetone to remove any residual fumaric acid

Basically, it comes down to how efficiently you can scrape up the crystal


I suspect crystallisation is finished within a matter of hours, if not minutes. But i could be wrong

Incredible.... SWIM started out with less than a tenth of this vial left of freebase, and a big jar of xylene (containing jungle-spice and resin). This vial held nearly 6g of freebase from my last extraction before most of it was smoked. Now, SWIM's filled it again thanks to the contributions made on this thread--though this time with fumarate.

SWIM played around with it in the salting process to get a feel for it and unfortunately lost a good amount to the sides of several containers. SWIM was slightly disheartened until SWIM realized that he could simply wash it out with water and save the water for when he wishes to make freebase again.

SWIM's a little worried to wash with acetone, though supposes he had better if he's to administer it through insuffulation (w/ harmala).

This will be extremely handy for my next extraction. Nice work!

lol nice background man

Why worry about washing it with acetone?
It's basically the same deal as the first time

Anyway, excess fumaric acid isn't too bad

Oh yes, but it's just so dry and pretty!

SWIM did a couple rails and is pretty sure he should wash it, because it burned pretty bad. It wasn't nearly as bad as freebase, though.

Argh, jesus f'n christ
I snorting 70mg of freebase once.. never again, ever, whoa, bad

The fumarate is a pleasure

I was thinking about this,
eh, too much to write now, shortly you'll see what i'm talking about

Since fumarate salting relies so heavily on acetone, SWIM thought he might share this method of making anhydrous acetone:


from bluelight

[[[ 4) When completely dry, we add 10 ml of methyl ethyl ketone and mix. The excess fumaric acid quickly falls to the bottom of the methyl ethyl ketone because it’s insoluble in it. ]]]

HI 69RON, ILPT would like to ask SWIM if he can use in this charming tek blend of MEK and Metyl Isobutyl ketone instead of pure MEK? ILPT found this clean blend easily available as the cellulose thinner.

That tech is flawed. It doesn’t work as stated. Something in SWIM’s notes were messed up.

One SWIM said the MEK part is backwards in that tech and that the DMT Fumarate is insoluble in the MEK and the DMT Fumarate gets filtered out and the excess fumaric acid stays in the MEK.

SWIM's lab is under construction right now so he hasn't found the problem yet. Once his lab is back to normal he’ll fix that tech.


Methyl isobutyl ketone (MIBK) is a GREAT SOLVENT! It's better than MEK because it’s only 2% water soluble. MEK is 29% water soluble. It should work as a substitute for MEK but only in some cases.

MEK has an XLogP of 0.4

Acetone has an XLogP of 0.2

MIBK has an XLogP of 1.5, that’s the same as DCM. That means that MIBK can be used as a DCM substitute for many extractions requiring DCM. I think both fumaric acid and DMT fumarate are probably not soluble in MIBK, but SWIM never tested it.

Give it a try. Just make sure to save everything just in case it doesn’t work. At worst, it will do nothing and so you can evaporate everything to recover your stuff.

Uno Excellento Maestro 69Ron. ILPT will go for that blend and whilst ILPT waiting for DCM delivery he try pull some dmt from amonium basified acetic extract of MHBR. Wauu