SWIMS mimosa guy is out but chaliponga is in. He tried extraction but that was just like mimosa (he was hoping for a 5meo feeling from chali but did not feel anything different)

SWIM has wanted to do an AYA, but not if it's going to leave him dissapointed.

SWIM does not have a sitter or co-astronaut this weekend.

Saturday night is the night in mind.

1. How much chali and how much rue to ensure breakthrough? Can he overdose with too much chaliponga? ie. is it safe with relatively low-mid level rue but say, 50g of chaliponga extract or will swim end up in er.

2. Is aya emotional like shrooms!? Swim finds shrooms can lead to very depressing thoughts, very dark places, not like lsd which is rock and roll and spice which is time travel.

2. Is there danger doing aya alone, more than say salvia or spice? He has done plenty of shrooms and acid alone albeit years ago. Does aya come with that physcal need to run around and move like shrooms? Thats what gets swim in trouble with shrooms somtimes.

3. What should swim prepare other than somewhere to purge, ie water, food, music, silence?

Why does swim feel he's going to feel let down by the aya experience in comparison to spice.

From everything I have read, 3g of Syrian rue is enough for the full effect as far as the MAOI goes. Too much can leave you feeling sick and it seems better to do a cold water extraction and filter out the particulates, apparently that is the no nausea rue prep method. Maybe add a little vinegar but don't boil it up to get at the goodness as it brings out the badness as well.
A proper does of Aya will not disappoint, I don't know how much a sitter is needed I guess it depends on each individual. The times I have taken Aya I never felt a sitter was necessary but I have seen some people who needed help, and read some trip reports where people freaked out and went to hospital.
I don't know anything about chaliponga but if you can estimate the % in the leaf matter you can at least work out how much to get you in the ball park. I have read reports from anywhere from 30mg to 150mg although if I was doing it I would probably aim for somewhere between 30 and 50 for the first time. Better to work up than be smacked down hard.
Aya can tend to be emotional however on a strong dose it feels like what is going on in your mind is coming from outside your mind so don't think it can easily be controlled. Its totally different to shrooms but still similar ???? hard to explain.
General consensus is that food shouldn't be eaten, however I hear that if things are a bit weak, a piece of buttered bread can help launch the experience. Some water is OK during if you are thirsty.
Music helps a lot, choose a sound track to make you fell happy and up and all should be fine.
Make sure you are in a comfortable and warm environment, the cold can really sap your energy.
Apparently keeping a straight spine is important so no slouching I noticed when I lay down the visions became more earthy and darker, and when I sat up they were lighter.

Hope that helps some.
Hit up erowid for some info on prep weights etc.

purists will say it is not ayahuasca if it doesnt have as the main ingredient B. Caapi.. not that I care though, but just letting you know in case you dont already


A lot of the questions you ask cannot be answered because it is not the substance that is responsible, but yourself and the setting where you ingest. For example, you say shroom brings depressive thoughts and dark places. You should not think this is shrooms themselves that are like that. For me, for example, its the inverse, they most times bring happy and playful trips.

I think if you generally have these kind of trips with shrooms, it can be that you have some stuff in your mind that you need to work out (or you're taking in a negative context).. It is possible, if you are doing it all in the same way, that you will also have such experiences with the ayahuasca analogue. Which makes me think you should start with small amounts, and work your way up. Please, be prudent.

lastly, ayahuasca and it's analogues are not like spice. Dont start the trip by expecting a spice-like trip or anything of the sort, just like you cant start a mushroom trip expecting something like acid or so on. It wont be fast and furious like spice, but it can take you deeper and bring way more understanding than smoked spice ever can, IMO, if the right dosage set and setting are present...

have a nice trip, and be safe (SWIM will also tomorrow be taking some Caapi+mimosa he just brewed today)

The 5-MeO-DMT content varies. SWIM usually finds it has about 30% 5-MeO-DMT with the rest being DMT when he buys from certain vendors. Sometimes there’s no 5-MeO-DMT at all, and sometimes there no DMT. It’s not so consistent.

If you’re chali is normal quality with good amounts of both DMT and 5-MeO-DMT then 15 grams will be a lot, and 50 grams will probably seriously freak out everyone on this forum to the point where insanity to the extreme is experienced. I wouldn’t recommend that dose unless you know you have chali with little or no 5-MeO-DMT in it. With the chali SWIM buys from his favorite chali vendor, the 5-MeO-DMT content is about 0.2%. So 50 grams would contain about 100 mg of 5-MeO-DMT. That’s way too much to take orally with an MAOI. I don’t think you’d end up in ER, but maybe you might end up in a mental institution for a while until your brain chemistry gets back to normal



Yes and no. It’s too hard to say. Individual effects vary too much. With SWIM shrooms never cause a bad trip like LSD can. So SWIM’s reaction is the opposite to SWIY. SWIM never had a bad trip on aya, but others have.



It’s more relaxed. SWIM always does it alone if the dose is really strong. If the dose is light, he likes being around his family and friends. But at a high dose, SWIM wants to concentrate on the visions, so it’s like being in the theater, he likes it dark and quite with no one causing distractions.



If the chali is bunk, like a lot of it is out there if you don’t get it from a good vendor, then yes you’ll be disappointed. If it’s the same chali SWIM has and you take 50 grams, you’ll be in for the most intense trip of your life. Within about 5 minutes you’ll be tripping really hard and thinking “OH SHIT! I’ve done it now!”. SWIM doesn’t even want to think about how strong that would be. SWIM is hardcore and can handle 10 hits of strong acid, 15 large psilocybe cubensis mushrooms, and would never ever consider taking more than 25 grams of good quality chali in aya. The 5-MeO-DMT in it becomes really bazaar at high doses causing all sorts of insane effects on the mind. We’re talking about thing like, “I became a triangle and I could not escape the confines of the triangle as it began to shrink and engulfed my soul and spit it out into a billion shards of glass. I could not find my soul for an eternity and I felt lost until the elephant man sent messages to me in tiny pieces of hair which I hate and vomited out. I could not stop vomiting out hairs which became universes that exploded into dust. Finally my teeth were like worms and my mind was like a piece of candy that was melting. I attempted to recall who I was, why I was, but the elephant man kept entering my mind and mixing it like a blender with his trunk.”

Beware, 5-MeO-DMT can cause some very serious abstract thoughts that make no sense at all. The last time SWIM took 5-MeO-DMT sublingually in his living room, during the peak, all of his thoughts were squares and rectangles. Not images of squares, his thought patterns were actually squares. All of SWIMs thoughts were squares. His brain and his emotions became squares. As bazaar as that sounds, that is what he experienced. 5-MeO-DMT can be really weird. Aya tends to tame 5-MeO-DMT and make it more like DMT, but at high doses the 5-MeO-DMT insanity starts creeping in. And I mean CREEPING as in CREEPY

I recommend no more than 10 grams at first.

If you feel, being alone is risky, then this 'fear'might have a negative impact on your journey.
If you don't do things that might be really risky when you're tripping, like driving a car or operating any vehicle (i must say i myself have not always honoured this commandement) or things like chainsaws or weldingmachines, then you don't have to worry much.
It must be said that this is always a personnal thing and also depends much on to wich degree you will still be able to be rational. I've seen people completely losing it on substances (thinking they where chased by demons and such), where i would take any peculiar thought or insight, perceived with psychedelics as "well, i'm not completely sober so we'l see about that when this stuff is over".

I have tried aya-, pharma-, and fume-a-, huasca, as well as Strait spice and Jungle Spice. What I can say from my experience is that it is according to how much you do. All of them can get you to the same plane. At about 800-1000mg of DMT it is all pretty much the same w/ two exceptions. When the MAOI is taken, it is less costly because it makes the DMT experience last longer. Secondly, the MAOI does add a little extra happiness and eases you into the plane jumping a little slower than strait DMT. With Jungle Spice there is something more that is a little different as well.

As for doing it w/o a sitter. I never really have a sitter. Never needed one. That is not to say that you don't. You might. It is according to the individual. Myself, I learned that once the experience is familiar there is no anxiety and as long as there is no anxiety or fear or guilt and only happy happy thoughts then I never have a worry or problem. If you are asking if you need a sitter, that might be an indicator that perhaps you should have one just in case. At least until you become comfortable enough in hyperspace that there are no worries of what is going on in physical space. It is really a matter of the mind and being able to choose to keep your body where it is while your mind takes a tryp.

I realize the adventure is over but 2 things:

Chali varies so much in potency. Some batches are highly active at 15grams, some take 25grams for a threshold dosage. YMMV

I have never believed a sitter is necessary. Aya usually comes in waves (at least with Caapi) and the most intense part of it is only 20-45 minutes. A sitter can do very little for someone who is deep in an aya journey other than convience them to ride it out and not call an ambulance.

No one has died on aya, save a few that added other dangerous plants (nicotine poisoning c omes to mind) or has very serious conditions going into it.

just read alot to be sure about what dose you go for. i usually like to undertake voyages which include body cleansing by myself. unless you got 2 bathrooms in your flat

i actually wondered why some shamans use tobacco, brugmansia or datura in theyr recipe. this must be awful! its probably one of those things which takes getting used to..

I have been reading a ton about Ayahuasca & proper preparation/brewing of it. I am always reading about using Black Tobacco to blow your intentions into the brew among other things, it seems many Shaman use Black Tobacco for a lot of cleansing rituals as well.

So, I myself have a pretty bad reaction to tobacco. Taking a couple of drags off a cigarette will reduce me to vomiting & diahrea within minutes!
Do any of you chaps have any recommendations of something else that can be used for the same reasons while brewing Ayahuasca?
I know that these things have everything to do with intentions and what the person using the plant "wishes or wants" it to do. I'm just gathering as much info as I can.

Thanks again all!!

WS

[quote=warrensaged]

Palo Santo wood is very good for cleansing, as is white sage. It is not an admixture to the brew though. Remember that Mapacho is very different from commercial tobacco. With Mapacho one can cheek smoke. This does not involve inhaling the smoke. Fill your mouth with the smoke and hold it in your cheek for 30 seconds or so and blow out.

Palo Santo is indeed wonderfull for cleansing, I use it for a while now as a natural insence and it helps to set my mind.

I will Google Palo Santo wood and check it out.
I do use White Sage to cleans & bless the space I brew in.
When I smoke pure DMT, I also use White Sage to do the same thing in the space I'm smoking in.


Nice to know!!
I have watched a few videos of shaman brewing Aya and it looked as if they and the people involved in the ceremony were inhaling the smoke. I also figured one needed to bring the smoke fully into ones body to manifest your intentions as part of the smoke.
Once again, I know intention has everything to do with blessing your brew, but I would like to traditionally ritualize a brew, being made during a camping trip planned for later this fall as much as I can.

I am in information vacuum mode!!

WS

If you want, there are two types of mapacho, one is N. Tobaccum and the other is N. Rustica. Both have very high nicotine contents compared to commercial tobacco but without all the processing chemicals. One does not need to inhale this smoke to gain effects from it. I believe the currandero's believe that tobacco is a very powerful spirit aid and simply taking the smoke into ones mouth has a cleansing effect.

However, you do NOT need tobacco to ritualize your brewing of aya. This can be done simply with intent, and your time and energy (a litte incense would be helpful as well).

Yes, I agree about the wonderful Palo Santo. A steady presence in future launches, the Elves seem to like it too!