I've been told that this is the correct forum within the nursery to post this thread, so here it is. Sorry about the multiple post.

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There’s this guy that I know. Several years ago he did shrooms a bunch of times. He liked them, but whenever he was just getting off he would experience vertigo for a half hour or so (as did his friends). Sometimes that would make him anxious, and then he’d have to concentrate so as not to get into a negative mindset (dysphoria).

Lately he’d been reading the glowing reports about mescaline, so he thought he'd give that a try. He got some green “Peruvian Torch” powder from HP and performed an extraction on it using 69ron's HCl tek (using the tek exactly as written, without doing any titration). He then washed the crude extract 3 times each with acetone and isopropanol (both of which were ice-cold and anhydrous) to yield a pale pink powder with a slight amber tint.

The guy (who weighs about 200 pounds) ingested 200 mg of the pink powder. He expected an experience like the “pure” mescaline trips he had read about, but that wasn't what he got.

In the first place, as he got off he experienced a fairly heavy vertigo (with some mild anxiety and dysphoria) from T+1 hour to T+2½ hours, especially during the first half hour of that period. He doesn’t recall any mention of vertigo in the mescaline trip reports.

In the second place, he wouldn’t characterize anxiety and dysphoria as being extremely “forgiving”, as mescaline is said to be.

In the third place, he felt quite sleepy. In fact, a while after coming off the vertigo, and lasting right through the peak, he actually DOZED OFF several times!!

In the fourth place, he simultaneously felt kind of speedy.

In the fifth place, he was HEAVILY stoned, not at all clearheaded.

And in the sixth place, he started coughing for a while, actually bringing up some phlegm. He's not sure, but he thinks that might be a sign of bronchodilation.

So although he had extracted from “Torch” and washed the crude extract thoroughly, evidently there were still other psychoactive alkaloids besides mescaline present in large amounts.

However, the character of the experience didn’t change over time - it remained sleepy, speedy and stoning the whole time. But if there really were more than just one alkaloid present, wouldn't the experience change over time, due to the various alkaloids’ different times of onset and durations of effect?

On the other hand, if it really was (at least mostly) just one alkaloid, and the effects of that alkaloid lasted for twelve hours (as it did in this case), what else could it have been other than mescaline?

So could it be that these diverse effects were at least mostly caused by mescaline itself? The guy highly doubts it, because he feels that what he experienced lacked all the “hallmarks” of mescaline, based on everything he had read.

In the first place, it was not AT ALL euphoric. There was no joy, no emotional “warmth” or heightened feeling of well-being, and no laughter.

In the second place, the only feeling of sensuality he got was the kind of quasi-sensuality you feel when you’re sick.

In the third place, the experience didn't feel empathic / social at all (although admittedly the guy was alone at the time, so maybe that had something to do with it).

And in the fourth place, when the experience ended, there was no “afterglow” feeling of well-being.

So despite HP's excellent reputation, you gotta ask yourself: was the green powder from HP really Torch? Maybe it was actually San Pedro, or even Achuma.

But even THAT doesn't fit with what this guy had read. The other alkaloids in Torch, Pedro and Achuma were repeatedly described in the trip reports as also being pleasant - in fact, the “cocktail” of these alkaloids with mescaline were typically described as “therapeutic”, “nurturing”, “healing”, and “antidepressant” - which is not how this guy would describe this experience (especially the vertigo).

Anyway, he’s thinking of getting the necessary materials to do a proper recrystallization with decolorizing carbon and hot vacuum filtration, but that’ll raise the total cost of this project from $300 to $500, so he wants to get other people’s opinions before proceeding.

So does all this mean that other alkaloids in the mix can ruin the mescaline experience for some people, even though they’d still love straight mescaline? If so, assuming the original green powder was really Achuma (as the guy suspects), is there likely to be enough mescaline in the semi-refined pink powder to merit the expense of recrystallization? (The guy’s got only about 1.6 grams of pink powder left.)

Or is it possible that the pink powder is at least mostly mescaline, but this guy is just affected differently by it than most people, maybe because of his age? (He’s now in his fifties.) Also, could it be that psychedelics in general just tend to give him vertigo, with the potential for anxiety and dysphoria (as evidenced by his experience with shrooms)? Comments, please (especially from the “experts”).

Not mescaline.

Torch is sort of a mixed bag. If you read around the same places I did, the general consensus is that torch is a classification that can be applied to many variations of trich cacti.

That being said, HP has been out of prepowdered torch for a while now. In fact I bought a good bit of it for my buddy "gerbil" they put on the front page that they were expecting to be out for a while. They have since restocked with dried pieces (no powder)

The chances are good that you and the gerbil probably had torch from the same batch.

The gerbil told me that this was the dirtiest, most amber extract that he has ever gotten. (he did an extra pull though) No powder at all... just brownish goo. He washed with MEK per 69rons tek. MEK and Acetone are similar but I do not know that they can be exchanged in this tek.

The gerbil has yet to try his cold mek washed mesc. But, it is not pink in the slightest. It is light tan, mostly white.

I will go ahead and vouch for HP's torch usually giving a good amount of white-ish acetate. The gerbil does not usually wash it at all and loves it. He just did the MEK wash this time because it was sooo brown and gooey.

SWIM wouldn't characterize mescaline as an easy feel-good party drug. It's going to make you work for the bliss and it can be a rough ride at times. That being said, having relatively pure material will probably make it somewhat easier.

No matter what, it's SWIM favorite psychedelic and it has enormous spiritual potential. Don't give up on mescalito just yet!

all pretty subjective...
to ensure the extraction isn't to blame make some tea(thats hard to mess up)

Madcap, are you saying that your mescaline extract from HP's torch was weak as well, or inactive, since you said it could be from the same batch?..or am i misreading your post, since you said:



poly, why do u say this, and how do you know? is it because the OP's product has a tinge of pink in it?

SWIM got 2% unclean acetate from HP torch pieces, never tried the powder. Pieces ordered 6 months apart same result. Used limonene/lime tek. Easier than resin or IPA soaks. Active at 100mg unclean, couldn't be happier with results.

Sort of sounds like you didn't get torch. Personally always happy with HP.

there is no reports of it but I have read about bad trips... anxiety and high bloodpressure feelings, and it cures with diazepam (prozac?).
So, maybe the problem is your mental state before tripping. Try meditation, music, being at peacefull and green place, etc.
The theory of other alkaloids is not the best explanation, no reports of another alkaloids or metaboliuc intermediates in trichocereus, and mescaline seems to be very hard to react with some of the solvents or acids or bases used.

prozac is not diazepam,valium is diazepam

Cacti contain many alkaloids and the ratio of alkaloids is different with each cactus, even from the same strain.

Many alkaloids in cactus have a sedating or stimulating effect. They can cause a drunken feeling or a fucked-up feeling or both if they're combined. Many of the alkaloids are phenethylamines wich are chemically very close to mescaline and have much of the same properties as mescaline like sollubility in all kinds of substances.

I don't know about 69ron's extraction method but a cactus that contains little mescaline and much other stuff could lead to an extract that contains little to no mescaline and much other stuff.

The reason why i said "no mescaline" is because mescaline couldn't possibly lead to the experiences you describe. Mescaline is euphoric in low doses and extremely psychedelic in higher doses. It's warm and very pleasant. It's very visual and gives insight in yourself and the world around you. It has little side-effects in normal doses. Only in doses way higher than you took, it could become frightening and too overwhelming. but the dose you took was sub-psychedelic.

But there's no way mescaline could possibly cause the effects you describe.
There's no way mescaline could be unpleasant to anyone who seeks a psychedelic experience, in the dose you took.
If you had an extract that would have been high in mescaline you would most definately have not just liked it, but you would have LOVED it. that's for sure.

Both...

My last extraction...with powder purchased at the same time as you... was not very clean. But, that is the way it goes sometimes. I haven't tested the end result yet but all signs point to mescaline. It looks and tastes as expected (although a bit cleaner because this was my first mek wash) I will report my bio-assay.

Every other time I've used powder from HP.... I've had fantastic results.

I will continue to shop there.

mesc is awesome... don't give up.

Try again. FV has good powder too.

Make sure you use the least amount of water..just enough to mix it all up to a paste.

Salt your Dlimo pulls separately. After your first pull, run the vinegar through it 3 times and evaporate that.

You should have some good tan stuff and not much amber. (go ahead and do 2 more dlimo pulls but slat them one at a time... ther won't be much in the last one)

Don't clean it..just eat a good dose of the stuff from the first pull. I would say for starters 200 mg with 3 datura stramonium seeds chewed up.

That should be euphoric as a mofo!

Madcap said:
"...the general consensus is that torch is a classification that can be applied to many variations of trich cacti."

Everything my buddy's ever read says it's Echinopsis peruviana (syn. Trichocereus peruvianus).

Madcap said:
"The chances are good that you and the gerbil probably had torch from the same batch.

The gerbil told me that this was the dirtiest, most amber extract that he has ever gotten… No powder at all... just brownish goo.

...The gerbil has yet to try his cold mek washed mesc. But, it is not pink in the slightest. It is light tan, mostly white."

My buddy's crude extract (before washing) was pinkish powder from the center of the drying plate, and a stiff, cinnamon-colored resin from the edges. Perhaps it's not the same batch.

Madcap said:
"I will... vouch for HP's torch usually giving a good amount of white-ish acetate."

Remember, my buddy went for hydrochloride, not acetate. But at any rate, are you saying that the acetate is whitish AFTER washing, and that you think it might be possible that that product is cleaner than washed hydrochloride? Because from everything my buddy's ever read, the hydrochloride would probably be cleaner.

Phantastica wrote:
“Madcap, are you saying that your mescaline extract from HP's torch was weak as well, or inactive…?”

To which Madcap replied:
“Both”

Well then, maybe FV is the way to go until it has been reported by several people that HP has straightened its act out. My buddy will look forward to hearing of your bio-assay, Madcap.

Madcap said:
“Make sure you use the least amount of water..just enough to mix it all up to a paste.”

Did that.

Madcap said:
“Salt your Dlimo pulls separately.:

If you’re doing three limo pulls and salting them three times each, that’s nine saltings. Why not just pool the three limo pulls and do just three saltings on the whole amount? My buddy disagrees that this will result in a dirtier product - it will merely have an "averaging" effect. It might be dirtier than the first limo pull by itself, but it will be cleaner than the third limo pull by itself. Besides, my buddy then washed the crude extract anyway.

Madcap said:
“Don't clean it…”

I don’t think so. My buddy thinks the problem appears to be the presence of other alkaloids.

Madcap said:
“…for starters 200 mg with 3 datura stramonium seeds chewed up.”

What’s a good source for datura stramonium seeds? Are they an MAOI inhibitor? And do they affect the quality of the high?

defunkt said:
"SWIM wouldn't characterize mescaline as an easy feel-good party drug. It's going to make you work for the bliss and it can be a rough ride at times."

My buddy never thought of mescaline as a party drug, but it was repeatedly described as the most "forgiving" psychedelic. And this seemed LESS forgiving than shrooms.

dg said:
"...to ensure the extraction isn't to blame make some tea(thats hard to mess up)"

Too late for that - the green powder was extracted carefully and thoroughly (so it's doubtful the extraction was botched), so the powder was discarded. Anyway, potency wasn't the issue - it was the character of the experience. And from that experience, my buddy is persuaded that the effects of the full spectrum of alkaloids would have been even less pleasant.

Phantastica said:
“poly, why do u say this (‘Not mescaline.‘), and how do you know? is it because the OP's product has a tinge of pink in it?"

My buddy's sure he read in this forum that the washed hydrochloride was often described as being pale pink.

damon said:
"Sort of sounds like you didn't get torch."

My buddy agrees.

Pancho said:
"there is no reports of it but I have read about bad trips... anxiety and high bloodpressure feelings, and it cures with diazepam (prozac?). So, maybe the problem is your mental state before tripping."

This wasn't a bad trip. It was just a slightly unpleasant experience, instead of the bliss that was advertised. There was only a little anxiety, which was readily controlled by keeping attention on positive things. And the guy's mental state was just fine before, during and after the trip.

What are "high blood pressure feelings"? My buddy doesn't have high blood pressure.

Diazepam (Valium) is a benzodiazepine, which means it'll "cure" a bad trip by more or less ending it.

Pancho said:
"no reports of another alkaloids or metaboliuc intermediates in trichocereus..."

No other alkaloids in trichocereus? Everywhere on the net says there is.

Pancho said:
"mescaline seems to be very hard to react with some of the solvents or acids or bases used."

This was the straight 69ron HCl tek, using d-limonene, calcium hydroxide and dilute hydrochloric acid.

polytrip: My buddy's inclined to agree with you that there was little or no mescaline in what he did, and certainly HOPES you're right. He wants to try again to get the blissful experience he’s read about.

So what's the consensus? That it's worth the expense to recrystallize the pink powder? Or should my friend just start over with some green powder from FV or someplace else?

Guys, Where do you buy the powder? Can you give me a website?
I was trying a original xtraction tek of a cacti a had and finally there was too little and It is disolved in too much water so is hard to extract or evaporate all the water....
So I want some powder.
About the topic: cacti has many alkaloids and diferent ratios but mezcaline is clearly the main one, so, from a certain amount of alkaloids is xtrange you could feel the another alkaloids effects and mezcaline you couldnt.
I believe it is you, mezcaline at low doses is more euphoric or emotive, and thats why some people who drinks the tea here in south america have unpleasant or maybe scary xperiences; a bad trip, because a low dose and the individuo is not a mentaly stable person or has some troubles or subconcient fears.
...anyway... sorry for my english... AND GIVE ME THE SUPPLIER PLEASE

Ive had unpleasant experiences with cacti and I was seeking a psychedelic experience..and I am confident my torch is loaded with mescaline..not that I didnt trip or feel amazing afterwords and healed..but it was def not pleasant durring the peak..it was difficult and I just wanted it to end. Other times its been amazing the entire time.

bump

Thanks for any help anyone can give - really need an answer.

Wow.... I've never been quoted so many times and still not understood. I will try and make my intention more clear. I was only trying to help.

I wasn't trying to get you the cleanest easiest highest yield.. I was just laying out a procedure that if followed...will give a nice experience. You are caught up in searching out this clean mescaline (a noble cause)..But, you are bringing many variables in to the equation by trying to get it super clean. I suggested my possibly fail-proof method for a good dose. I suggested acetates because that is what I work with (when and where legal to do so)

By salting your first pull separately, you will most likely have a purer extract than if you salt them all together. I tell you this because of experience. I've salted pulls separately and had much more gunk in later pulls than the first one. Yeah it takes more time and trouble, but you seemed like you really want to try mescaline....



But, your buddy hasn't ever taken / extracted mescaline and his one attempt went wrong somewhere... just trying to get you there bro

again by salting that first pull separate, you will have a much cleaner extract than if you combine your pulls. Maybe Mescaline is more likely to saturate the dlimo and therefore not leave room for much else ( I do not know if thats true but it is one of many reasons why the first pull could be cleaner)

Once you've had a good experience under your belt...you will be able to make the determination of how much you need to purify.

I feel like I have to sort some of this quoting out...sorry to blast this thread with multiple posts





I didn't just reply "BOTH" I explained that only 1 of the MANY extractions I have done on HP's powder went wrong. (what if I made a mistake in my procedure) Now you are implying that HP needs to get their act straightened out....

Madcap said:
“I was only trying to help.”

Sorry if my tone sounded unappreciative. My intention was to really get into an analysis of the problem, not to dismiss others’ comments, which truly ARE appreciated.

Madcap said:
“By salting your first pull separately, you will most likely have a purer extract than if you salt them all together.”

True. If my buddy had known that achieving good purity was going to be difficult, that’s the way he would have gone.

Madcap said:
“Now you are implying that HP needs to get their act straightened out....”

It’s just that given all of what has been stated above, and with which others have explicitly or implicitly concurred, my buddy thinks that that is enough of a possibility that it might be prudent to try another vender just to see if that yields a better result (not that it necessarily would). Not trying to be argumentative, just stating an opinion.

But precisely because there may in fact be NOTHING wrong with HP’s Torch powder, my buddy would very much like to hear of your bio-assay, if you have had the opportunity to get around to that yet.

I haven't had the time to dose lately. I've really been hoping to test out this MEK washed batch but I haven't had a day where I can cut loose in a while.

Also...about the datura. It is not a MAOI but it does kick the effects of mescaline up quite a bit....eases the nausea (if there is any) If you order powder from FV, they will probably throw some in for you. They almost always do.... you can also request what your free gift is going to be.