Last night during some sub-breakthrough DMT journeying I encountered something very strange indeed. I had already take the the main pull off the Vapor Genie but wanted to take 1 more just to get anything left over. Breathed in, not hard, not fast, but I could tell there wasn't much left.

I closed my eyes and to my surprise the pulsing white geometric patterns were suddenly covered in an amorphous dark...goo. It looked like a shadowy tar had been thrown into my minds eye, and as I looked around it could be perceived as stretching between geometric objects like gum stuck too ones shoe.

I let the trip fade and refreshed the VG with 1 last bit of my best spice. I lay back and took the pull, but nothing much happened.

1 more pull, just to be sure.

My lungs were greeted with an unpleasant but familiar feeling and I quickly exhaled the white smoke. This smoke, which has shown up both when pulling too long on a bong, and now on the VG, is a very bad substance. It turns any trip bad almost instantly, but this time I was spared. I have found this smoke to be a great indicator of when to stop smoking spice for a while.


What I took away from this is that the original spirit of my spice has been exhausted, smoking it will not take me anywhere new. It is time to recrystallize the spice, charge it with new intent and new questions.

Have you tried making changa? Honestly, that is the way to do it if you're still smoking freebase and don't like the taste. You may want to give that a shot before you recrystallize.

good luck

Ummm...or maybe it's overly oxidized, or your burning it.



WS

In the bong I thought it was burnt spice, but in the VG it can't really get burnt, so I don't know. I think it's about time to clean out the VG anyway.

Yes, it can. The ceramic disc thing is just a filter, inhaling too hard, or not allowing cool air into the filter with the flame, by using too large or direct a flame can definitely over heat it & burn your goods.

Also if its dirty inside, you increase the chance of burning it by adding a variable to the vaporization temperature equation. How hot does the residue & resin get inside there...adding to the temp of the ceramic filter.

The fact that you say it needs to be cleaned, speaks to the fact that you may be burning it too.

Is the extract clean? DMT should/can vaporize completely, leaving very little evidence when heated correctly.
Impurities do not!! And also can combust at a higher or lower temp than then DMT vaporizes at.


WS

Cleaned out the VG, wasn't bad but I did find my filter clogged with soot, I guess the flame from my lighter was touching it too much, and clogged about 80% of the ceramic. This may have forced all the heat to one area, thus causing some burning.

VG cleaned today, filter was removed and soot burnt away with a propane torch. So it's nice and ready for next time.

Although that does not explain the way the visuals changed.

ignore the other foolish replies. you were correct in your statement. its as if the substance itself changes or your tastebuds do to indicate TIME TO STOP!! It has nothing to do with rational earthly reasons...ohhh the spice isnt pure...or ohhh your smoking technique is terrible... rubbish i say!! the spice itself is speaking to you and you've gone as far as you are allowed for the night any further attempts can and WILL (mark my words will!!) be met with both a "bad/hard trip" and the taste of the dmt itself will change to absolutely rAnCiD!! I call it "dead mans breath" because to me for some reason it feels like i'm inhaling the breath of a corpse

Listen to what the spice is telling you rather than those on here on this ONE topic. It however does NOT mean to quit forever, just for the night, you've been shown all your allowed...

i posted a thread on this very topic last week. also what people seem to be missing is that the first inhale is smoooooooth. its after coming back from a mild to deep breakthrough that the further attempts are met with this absolutely rancid taste/smell. of the now tainted spice

"dead mans breath" That is indeed good name for it. I've had that smoke numb my mouth, lungs, and body to such a point; it felt like I was choking for breath and thinking that my spice was tainted with poison.

that is exactly how i feel once/**IF I hit that point. It is a much much different smell and taste then the first few rips. Its like a barred re-entry to hyperspace is what i'm conditioned to believe.

You don't think it was more likely that it was melted & vaped during the first times you lit it & then burned on the 2nd or 3rd toke?!?!!?!?

I guess I don't understand how that's not obvious...especially when it's the 2nd or 3rd toke.
-the crystals are already melted, needing less heat to reach burning temp.
-soot built up on the filter causing the filter to run hotter & the user to inhale harder, causing more direct heat on one certain area in the pipe. They even warn about this in the GVG manual...

Please explain why there has to be some mystical answer from the cosmos, when you are vaporizing an substance that has a melting point about 20 degrees cooler than it's vaporizing point....& a burning point about 20 degrees hotter than it's vaporizing point.
Sorry no ghosts here....your burning it.
(melting point = 45C degrees)
(vaporizing point = 60C degrees)
(burning point = 80C degrees)

Also That old-lady-musk smell/taste is exactly what burned DMT smells & taste like...this used to be common knowledge before good vaporizing techniques were worked out & things like the Vapor Genie were created!!
Anyone who has vaporized DMT with a base pipe (meth-type pipe) knows this smell/taste well, because there is next to nothing to help you maintain that perfect temp for vaping, but not burning, so burning some was always inevitable.

Also the effects change because the molecule is burned & no longer interacting in the same way with your body?!?!!?
c'mon!

There are things shown to you with DMT, no doubt, but thinking every little thing involved is some spirit-directed sign from the other side is naive.
And just makes it harder to find real answers.
Science & spirituality go hand in hand, although not necessarily in the current paradigm.


WS

Yea gonna have to go with WSaged on this one because you problem is based on the taste it seems. Because a horrible taste like that cries burnt or improperly vaped spice.

Though, the change in visuals from bright to dark would make me lean towards skinwalker's explanation. Perhaps you need some time to integrate before coming back.

i thought the OP was using a VAPOR GENIE!! you guys dont get it... trust me. i love the logical conclusion too... your answers plain do not suffice for what is happening in my experiences. furthermore is does NOT happen everytime after the initial blastoff, sometimes i can toke and toke all night and never get that taste. also me personally i use a oil burner and do not vape the spice. the worst time i had the taste was WHEN I VAPED SPICE so answer that one. Also my pipe is all crusty and crystally and nasty, so my first few tokes should taste as bad as waiting 1/2 hour and tyring again. Furthermore i'm not reburning the oil mess i'm loading the pipe with new spice when i try to blast off again and it tastes HORRIBLE. your answers are not whats going on, and yes the human mind can reject something and even alter its perception of taste if it believes strongly enough that what it is injecting or inhaling is poisonous.... why does this have to do with magical ghosts??? thats common knowledge as well. My mind (ooooooooooor the dmt entities) is telling me that further smoking is immediatly detrimental to my health and to immediatly quit, as a result perhaps convincing my subconsciousness that i'm inhaling a poisonous smoke thereby changing the false perception of rancid flavor.

it is NOT due to poor smoking technique, that i can assure you, and find offensive.

I'd try but what you said here makes no sense at all...
extracted DMT boils into a vapor not smoke....regardless of the device....if your not getting a vapor, then yeah, you probably get that horrible taste pretty often.
Especially if you admit your using a base pipe ("oil burner".




You are loading more fresh DMT onto half spent, "crusty" left overs?
Are you serious?
Every one of the things you listed above will cause it to burn...I'm just trying to help here.
If there is an "oil mess" or it's "crusty and crystally and nasty", then you are certainly re-burning whats left in there, whether or not you are trying to.
How selective do you think a flame is?
Do you not get how loading more on top of a "crusty, mess" is going to completely change the way it is heated (ie: burned)?

Of course some of the DMT will get vaporized correctly in your pipe too, so you do feel some effects, but not what you where expecting.

Once again, there is only a 40-35 degree difference between DMT's melting point & it's burning point...in between there is a small window of vaporization.


Good luck with your ghosts, your gonna keep encountering them until you clean you pipe & get a better vaporizing technique.

Just trying to help....

WS

what was your rational again for why the first 2-3 hits are smooth? with my dirty ass crack pipe? I really gotta hear this.

I've already stated it 3-4 times, maybe reread with an open, rather than an offended point of view.

Maybe read this, cause it's nothing new.
Wiki-smoking techniques

Myself & a number of other people experimented for a few years actually, searching for the perfect way to vaporize DMT without burning it & producing these effects.
Different pipes, different heat sources, etc...
Now it is fairly common to use a VG, because the little ceramic filter thing diffuses the heat so there is a certain temperature maintained inside the bowl. Rather than direct heat from a flame heating a certain area of a bowl, or base-pipe & burning the material.
This makes it extremely easy & reliable to vape DMT, this wasn't always the case though.
Although even a VG takes a bit of technique or you'll either under, or over heat it, they ever state this in the user manuals for the VG & GVG.


Then again some people see Jesus in a potato chip's shape....


WS

i really want to trust what your saying but based on your logic if i were to load my dirty bowl right now it should taste like burnt dmt correct? It wont and it never does on the initial 1-3 hits. It tastes like smooth vaporized dmt, enjoyable smooth, and POTENT! I've recrystalized mine to a fine white powder.

Are you suggesting that you can just keep re entering hyperspace every 15 minutes by smoking more with no negative consequences (with a VG and pure spice)? I do not mean to be challening in my tone... i'm honestly curious as this has not at all been my experience. I'm unquestionably barred from reentry and all attempts are met with negative consequences (the foul taste only being one of them...)

Also are you suggesting that whatever is on the other side after smoking dmt is fake and/or just a meaningless dream? Nothing so far has convinced me of an afterlife and of a spiritual reality more than dmt. Its on thing to have faith and believe another to be face to face with an entity that shouldnt exist. When i smoke this is no dream or subconscious manifistation, its unquestionably (to me) the real deal, a reality to which is more real that the world i feel i currently reside in.

No....the first hits will probably produce OK vapor...like ive mentioned already, but as it would now be in a liquid/oil state, as it sits there, the oil begins to seep into any tiny crevice or nook in the dirty pipe...it soaks into the crud while you are holding in your hit! Next time it is lit, the crud/DMT oil are going to react to the heat in a different way, because it is no longer a free oil.
Plus it is breaking down from the heat & the molecule is not going to act the same when it gets to the receptors that it is supposed to fit into.

The higher temp needed to burn DMT has to be reached by the temp increasing...so it starts out cool enough...but as you continue to heat it, the temp rises.
I don't get how this is not obvious to anyone who has ever cooked anything?

There is a chemistry behind the activation of DMT in your body...what happens once it's activated is unknown.
but neither of those things prove that it is all chemical, or all spiritual.
Both are needed!



Once again no...first there is a physical tolerance issue, a person usually needs about 30-50 minutes after returning to baseline, before the full effects will be felt from smoking more....usually.
Also this tolerance is going to grow exponentially stronger the more times you smoke in a row, until you get next to nothing.




Absolutely not! In fact if you read my other posts, you'll see that is the opposite of what I think!

At the same time I try to be objective in analyzing my experiences & find that being aware of the physical & chemical reactions and how they are also playing a giant part in this whole thing, allows me to focus in on the truely meaningful information available, rather than getting caught up in trying to find messages in every little happening.

Needle in a haystack.
Forest through the trees.
yada yada yada...

Understanding the basic principles of what you are dealing with here & not getting carried away with the idea that DMT is some kind of spirituality switch, will open up a vast universe that is inside of you...this is all you!
Not the you, you see in a mirror, the one inside the meat, that opens up when you quiet all the outside stimulus & memes.


You are applying heat to a solid substance to cause it to boil into vapor...a few more degrees & it burns instead.
The crystals are not magic...the magic is you...accessed through changing your radio receivers circuits with the crystals.



Anything?
WS

I have to agree with skinwalker, I've even had a freshly loaded bowl produce a bad smoke. It's not my spice, and most of the time it's not my technique.

Now I'll agree that sometimes I've burnt the spice, but even when I've lit DMT loaded spice on fire in my bong and still drawn in the hit it's not like what happens when the DMT tells me to stop.

I've taken smooth 50mg hits and had NOTHING happen, open the VG too find all the spice gone.





But besides that I'd like more discussion about how the visions changed, or I'd like a mod to lock this thread if it turns into a flame war.

No ones flaming...just discussing.

BTW, I am a mod....


WS

Experience is perception, Skinwalker's perception is a bit more fantastical, Wsaged more logical.

But in the end neither has felt what the other felt, so one can only speculate based of their own prior experience.