interesting, I guess its just different ways of thinking.. I would have probably instead thought of first separating the spice from solution, then making a dilute sodium carb solution and washing it to pick up extra sodium carb while diminishing chance of losing yields when adding pure water. But if it works, it works




Oh yeah you are right sodium carb shouldnt vap at lighter temperatures... Maybe some other compound from mimosa that had gotten carried together, some phenolic compound, fatty acid, something else that added weight and precipitated together, who knows? Im neither a chemist, but even if I was we just couldnt know unless we analysed it with some propper equipment. All I do know is the theoretical calculation of how much fumaric acid there is per gram of dmt fumarate, and how even if it was completely pure dmt fumarate and it was 100% effective conversion, it couldnt have yielded so much, and since your scales are accurate it just leads me to think there is some kind of extra 'something' there that is not dmt. Which isnt necessarily a bad thing, considering its all foodsafe and considering you notice no diminished potency, as I said, then you can be happy



Well its simple why it works, I guess.. Dmt fumarate is dissolved in water. When a sodium carb solution is added, the pH raises, making dmt as a freebase and insoluble in that solution, so it starts precipitating. Shaking the whole thing up will make the precipitated molecules get together faster. As for the difference between the slow and fast precipitation, I suspect it must be because, when shaking the whole thing up, whatever impurities are there can get trapped inside the precipitated dmt, like in a clathrate compound, therefore explaining both the extra weight as well as the more impure looks. Maybe these impurities act as heat-buffers, and protecting dmt when vaporizing it, making the vaporization more effective and thus compensating for the decreased purity, so that it seems the potency is not diminished. (all more or less educated speculation from a non-chemist, open to revision hehe... ). On the other hand if one crystallizes slowly, the dmt crystals will slowly build on top of each other and the impurity will be spread out in the solution and not precipitate together, therefore being a purer product (with a smaller yield... )



Well to answer this we would first have to question what is full spectrum spice in the first place. Is there really some other alkaloid? Or maybe just fatty acids, plant oils, inactive phenolic compounds? And if there is such an alkaloid like in burnt's mimosa tests (which mind you, were not achieved by extracting with limo and salting with FASI/FASW so we cant generalize the findings for our case), is it psychoactive? And even if its psychoactive, is it in amounts that will make any difference, or maybe so little that wont make a difference?

And since neither of us or nobody at all AFAIK has analyzed limo-extracted so-called 'full range', all we can mention so far is subjective experiences, bioassays. What I can personally say is that I noticed absolutely no difference in effects between that way of crystalizing dmt or any other way. Try it yourself and let us know (specially if you make a blind test). I would say its all good, whatever way you do


By the way I hope you realize that with all my questions and comments im not doubting your tek or ideas or anything of the sort. Im happy you came up with it and gladly added to the WIKI so that people have the possibility of making this conversion in just a few minutes Its just natural for me to question about everything and wonder why things work the way they do and what is behind everything and so on.

Sigh....While extractions yield little problems it seems that no matter what is tried the conversion of fumarate to freebase consistently yields a lot of problems.
This tek was followed exactly as is except 4.8g of DMT fum was used.
Now 15 minutes in the freezer and other than a few specs, hardly anything is floating on top the mixture.
It's a bit blurry but really there isn't anything of detail to see anyway.

If nothing were to precipitate as it continues to cool could swim just add an NPS like Naptha and pull the Freebase then freeze precip?

Very nice touch with the freeze separation. Well done!

SWIM's own methods would likely benefit from a little cooling.

tekkin alone in the kitchen iv been doing this for a while - but using a small plate - as separating the spice on top is easier when rakin it over with a small long handle scraper.

So it seems I have answered my own question. I guess the best thing to do is just try and see what happens whether you get an answer to your question or not.
Now there is a coffee filter full of beautiful white crystals using this method but instead of manually pulling out the waxy brown stuff just use some naptha and freeze that and enjoy perfect white crystals.
I know I will.

make sure to remove residual fumaric acid/ sodium fumerate traces with a water wash or carb wash, btw this is the best smelling spice i've ever sniffed and swim saved MUCHO time doing it this way. SWIM used vinegar water instead of fumerate and lye instead of carbonate btw.

This tek is awesome! This is so much better and faster than the way SWIM had done it in the past (freebasing with calcium hydroxide and extracting with acetone). SWIM thought that lime and acetone was a shortcut since the spice-rich acetone was going straight onto herbs to make changa anyway, but it turns out there is a long drying time with this method and lime is a little difficult to work with.

One note, however. After the first trip through the freezer and the spice layer pulled off, it seemed like the sodium carbonate solution was still very yellow, so SWIM repeated the heating and cooling and AGAIN got a layer on top, so it appears that more than a little was still left in the solution. A quite significant amount was pulled the second time.

Heating and cooling was done for yet a third time, and there is still more coming out of the solution, but the solution is much less yellow this time. SWIM will weigh it all after the third pull and a water wash and see how much came out compared to what is expected. SWIM was going for 2gm of freebase, so started with 2.62gm fumarate. We'll see how close SWIM comes to that 2gm mark.

SWIM's results are in. After the three heating/cooling/extracting cycles he got 1.750g freebase from 2.62g of fumarate to start. Seems a little low, but there may have been some excess fumaric acid in the crystals to start, though he's confident that they were fairly pure.

Following this tek with 5g DMT fumarate SWIM has only retrieved 1.3g freebase... and even then it was a precip of light tan goo on the surface as opposed to the pics here showing a handsome wedge of the stuff.

Jar was left to fully freeze overnight and is now thawing. SWIM hopes to see further precip over the next few hours.

First question - how critical are the quantities of near boiling water used in the two separate mixtures of fumarate and sodium carbonate? Is it the super saturation of each solution that gives this tek its apparent success?

Next question - if no further product is released from this freeze/thaw cycle, is there another way to pull the freebase out? The question earlier in the thread about using a solvent pull and freeze precip or evapping was unanswered... will this work? I will adhere to endlessness's mantra that nothing is lost until thrown away... in the hope that someone can help me here?!

thanks all,

It did work for me when I did it. I mean, as long as it's been converted to freebase then there is no reason it wouldn't work. Also there's no harm in trying a quick NPS pull and freeze precip. IF nothing comes out then that should say pretty definatively that it hasn't freebased for some reason.
I've had better luck with the slow method.

Thanks Opiyum. SWIM will give it a try.

Interestingly SWIM has come home to a thawed out jar with a hard white substance sitting on the bottom. Now, is this the good stuff or is it sodium carbonate? Lets see...

Well the fine off-white material resting at the bottom of the jar after a freeze/thaw was indeed the good stuff. Got an additional ~2g this way, bringing total yield to 3.1g from 5g DMT fumarate. A further NPS freeze precip may pull that remaining .6g (approx), but overall SWIM is very happy.

Sincere gratitude to everyone who has inputted here. The sheer convenience of this tek makes it a highly appealing alternative to other methods of freebasing.

swimew did fasa on dmt saturated xylene and retrieved 7g fumarates (cleaned repeatedly with dry acetone)
considering the potential for a few more grams (as 1lb was used, mhrb) swimew decided to do a fasw salt pull

it was evaporated down to a less than a hundred mls of dark yellow liquid, swimew was wondering if he could add it to a basic water solution to neutralize the excess fumaric acid and convert the dmt fumarates to dmt freebase


anyone have experience doing this? or insight as to what to expect?

This is exactly what happened to me..
i had no brownish honey-like layer, just freebase floating in the water…
sticked at the wall well above the watery-layer…

a few brown particles could be scraped of the wall…

will try second freeze now, and i guess going for a naphtha pull, after this looks as 2nd freeze wont bring sufficient result.. still more cloudy water than brownish stuff..

Will let it get back to room temp., and then try naphta pull in warm-water-bath…
hopefully , that would help!!??

HI thanks for this. Can you smoke your stuff? I ask because I tried to convert fumarate to freebase by just adding sodium carbonate based water on some fumarate gradually until it stopped fizzing. The result was flaky, crystally oranage stuff that looks like your crude product. I tried to smoke it and the crystal does not liquify or evap. It just stays solid no matter how much it is heated.

Also, how long are you keeping your jar in the fridge? 5 minutes you say? Is that even enough time for the water to cool? I'm in the process of trying this right now. It looks like half of the brown stuff sank to the bottom and the floating stuff is still gooey because the water is hot. You can't really do this in 10 minutes to be fair.

this is an excellent speedy tek - i have used it in the past with great success.
nice pix ice house

Why does the freebase not dissolve in such an alkaline solution? Just seems fraught with hazards..

Edit: apologies for my negativity there im really excited about this for all the experimenters now! Would love to see some more results.

because freebase is not soluble in alkaline solution...

ha yeah of course stupid question I suppose and I missed your previous post explaining the science behind it and I knew that! I did an extraction on mhrb a few years back why did I ask!
Anyway..I love the fact there are so many ways to extract and freebase nowadays some great work has been done over the last few years!

Could this effect be due to the spice being in a liquid phase (molten) due to the heat.

When a more orthodox crystallisation is done you are creating an insoluble solid which crystallises from the solution. This technique seems to create an insoluble liquid which pools together like an oil then sets as it cools.

I am not a scientist but that is my opinion of what is happening here rather than being a result of over saturation with base.