ok so SWIM just got done drying his final product from the vinegar. This extraction was done on P.Torch, so that's why i think its more brown and waxier than pedro, due to the presence of other alkaloids.
This is the product achieved after 3 limo pulls on 224g of powdered Torch (4 vinegar washes/limo pull). 3 more pulls will be done (each pull will be left to sit for a week or so).
Yield thus far=2.626g (will update in 2-3 weeks)

SWIM has't bioassayed it yet (plans to in a week), but he would appreciate your input on his questions. since he didn't have a food dehydrator, he used the oven at 200F (lowest setting on my oven) for ~4hrs; and ron's tek says to use 155F. He left the oven door open to reduce heat, but do you think this temp is too high to reduce its potency?

SWIM's second question is this: For the final 6th limo pull, should he add some lye to the cacti sludge to break down the cacti cell walls even further prior to pulling with limo? Would this result in a more efficient and thorough extraction?

Thank you all for reading

1. any mescaline salt should hold up fine at 200*, but i have not personally tested acetate salts in the oven- sulphate salts cooked at 300+ were fine, hcl-same

2. 6 pulls??! is the cacti sludge broken down to liquid? if not, addition of lye and another pull might not be a bad idea> if ya do it, post results

ok i see dg, thanks a lot for your answer. for about 1.5hrs i also had the fan blowing towards the oven, but then i decided that it would be faster without the fan, so i removed it for the remaining 2.5hrs...so i believe the 200F didn't reduce its potency then.
yea i know 6 pulls sounds more than necessary, but i've noticed in my other non-mesc extractions, that extra pulls still yield product if left for a long enough period. thats why im planning on leaving it to soak for a week/pull.

Also, the lye won't get trapped in the limo right, when mixed with the cacti sludge, like pickling lime does? my guess is a "no," so i will proceed with basifying even more with lye for the final pull prior to pulling with limo...unless someone convinces me otherwise

*edit* is there a pH that can be "too high" for efficient extracting, or does it not matter?

Actualy the opposite is true...Pedro has MORE other alkaloids than P. Torch.

really hard to make any claims, as the whole taxonomy is in constant debate,
are spinless trichos in peru just spinless "peruvianoids" or they tansplant pachanoi from equador,?
basicaly, not enough testing has been done, nor is identification as accurate as we'd like.
example, karl kinze sends me spinless cacti, that everyone would call pachanoi gathered from preu. but you cant call it "peruvianus" because it looks more like the common relatively spineless pachanoi>?

anyways: unless your specific plant has been lab tested its a crapshoot as to what alks are present...

Torch is famous for its "full-spectrum" effects so that's why i figured it had other alkaloids present, in addition to the dark brown color and waxy texture in my extraction. most people get very light brown powder from pedro, so thats why i made that speculation

From everything i have read including the wiki on ron69s acetate extraction usualy the results using vineagr and pedro produce exactly what you pictured while using p torch produces a lighter colred and less waxy product...of course if you want non-waxy tannish powder just do mesc hcl tek instead of acetate...and check out my mesc hcl clean up thread for PH suggestions so to pull the mesc as clean as possible...unless full spectrum is what you desire...then my suggestion is pedro,acetate and low PH salts...

according to ron, acetate is more potent by weight so thats one of the reasons i chose to make acetate. however i do plan on making mesc hcl as well once my mesc acetate runs out. i also don't intend on washing or cleaning it in order to experience the full-spectrum effects, and to continue being happy about my yield Don't wanna have it reduced by washing.

by this do you mean that the acetate made by pedro is better for a full-spectrum experience?
and what do you mean by low pH salts?

.


[/quote]...by this do you mean that the acetate made by pedro is better for a full-spectrum experience?
and what do you mean by low pH salts?
[/quote]

From what I have read and according to ron69s limo tek wiki Yes Pedro has more of a Full Spectrum of Alkaloids.

Read my Mesc HCL cleanup- thread for a fuller explanation about PH...and also the link in the post to my other post

The PH of the Vinegar/water in Mesc Acetate tek or HCL/Water in Mesc HCL tek is important in determining whether you get a full spectrum range of alkaloids or mostly just Mesc Alkaloids.

For example if you follow ron69s mesc HCL tek exactly your hcl/water will be a PH of around 0.50 before adding to D-limo and will raise to around PH of 1.5 after adding to the D-limo...that will salt out just about all the alkaloids present...it will be very dark brown to reddish brown...

If you use my suggestion of 9 drops 10% hcl to 200 ml water that resuults in a PH of 3.00 before adding to D-Limo and around 6.00 after adding to D-limo which will salt out mostly only the Mesc Alkaloid...

The pH of the d-limo gets basic because it has some bases dissolved in it; the bases are the alkaloids. Alkaloids are basic molecules ("alkaloid" means alkaline-like or basic-like). So when you salt out with your acid it is normal for the pH to go up, since some of the acid is getting neutralized by the basic alkaloids. The result of this (partial) neutralization is a salt as it always happens when an acid reacts with a base. In our case the salt is the alkaloid salt! (be it mescaline hydrochloride or mescaline acetate or whatever)..

This is incorrect.

The pH of the d-limo does not get basic because of lye or calcium hydroxide. It gets basic because it has some bases dissolved in it; the bases are the alkaloids. Alkaloids are basic molecules ("alkaloid" means alkaline-like or basic-like). So when you salt out with your acid it is normal for the pH to go up, since some of the acid is getting neutralised by the basic alkaloids. The result of this (partial) neutralisation is a salt as it always happens when an acid reacts with a base. In our case the salt is the alkaloid salt! (be it mescaline hydrochliride or mescaline acetate or whatever)

Hope this clears the issue up.

Yes...that's exactly what I meant...thanks for explaining it more concisely...

I used your expalantion to correct my posts...

Thanks!!

thanks futura and infun for explaining the dynamics of pH and its effects on the solution; i was unaware of this phenomena but it makes perfect sense, so i now have a better understanding.
thanks for letting me know about your thread futura; i just took a look at it, and it looks very interesting indeed, with helpful explanations regarding this topic. idk how i missed this thread before. for now i only skimmed, but i do plan on reading it soon